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Author Topic: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted  (Read 7511 times)

Rocketman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2005, 01:43 PM NHFT »

Russell, that isn't what I'm going to ask.   :D

Gandhi himself was a lawyer, so he never needed to ask about the law, but it's awfully useful to know what the applicable laws are and how they are usually enforced.

The question will be "what is likely to happen in response to this action?"  Sidney and the vet (assuming we can find one) should know exactly what the risks are in advance. 
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2005, 01:46 PM NHFT »

You could try writing to Evan Nappen or Tim Condon.  They'd likely give you advice :)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2005, 02:49 PM NHFT »

I was just mentioning how almost everyone will want to talk you out of it. But I met Sidney.....he looks like just the man for alcohol related civil disobedience. ;D
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2005, 02:50 PM NHFT »

I also don't figure that government officials are bound by the law....I expect the worst.
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2005, 12:44 AM NHFT »

How's this for a start?

Activist to Give Alcohol to Iraq War Veterans Under 21

?, Kentucky, May 23, 2005 - Inspired by the movie Gandhi and New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," a Kentucky man plans to defy Kentucky's underage drinking laws.? Sidney ? of ? has announced that he will give alcohol to a veteran of the Iraq War who is under the age of 21 - the legal drinking age in Kentucky.

"In a free country," he says, "responsible adults are allowed to drink without the government's permission."? "At the age of 18, these men and women can fight and die for our freedom, but they can't drink until 21."

In Kentucky, anyone giving alcohol to minors is guilty of a violation under KRS 244.085.3.? The law states "no person shall aid or assist any person under 21 years of age in purchasing or having delivered or served to him or her any alcoholic beverages."

Sidney plans to give a short speech thanking the veteran for his service, then present him with a six pack of homebrewed beer.? He vows to continue giving away alcohol to Iraq war veterans under age 21 until forced to stop.

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, New Hampshire, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.? After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he followed through with his promise, earned a brief trip to jail, and received heavy regional media coverage for his point of view.

The plan is for Sidney to give alcohol to a veteran of the Iraq War on Saturday, July 2, at noon, in front of the Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) in Frankfort.? Sidney said, "this will give the veteran a chance to properly celebrate America's Independence on the 4th."

Summary:

What:? Civil disobedience against underage drinking laws.
Where:? Alcoholic Beverage Control, 1003 Twilight Trail, Frankfort, KY? 40601
When:? Saturday, July 2, at noon
Who:? Sidney ? of ?, Matt ? of ?, supporters from the Free State Project (www.freestateproject.org).
Why:? To bring attention to the fact adults ages 18-20 are not allowed to possess or drink alcohol.
How:? By giving alcohol to veterans of the Iraq War under age 21, and continuing to do so until forced to stop.
Contacts:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2005, 12:53 AM NHFT by LeRuineur6 »
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2005, 12:47 AM NHFT »

The law is pretty clear in this case.  Giving alcohol to minors is a "violation".  In other words, it's like a traffic ticket.

However, if you do as this press release says and promise to refuse to stop, then force must be used to stop you from breaking the law.  This means they'll arrest you and jail you for a day unless you bail yourself out.
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Michael Fisher

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2005, 01:00 AM NHFT »

The ABC will not arrest you for this, but that is irrelevant.  They are the ruling authority over alcohol enforcement in Kentucky, and in my opinion, this is the perfect place to do this!  :)

This event is not very risky.  There are only two things I can see happening:  either they try to ignore you and are forced to arrest you eventually, or they arrest you immediately.  There were several complex variables in my event, and there are also several in Russell's event, but there are none that I can see in yours.

As long as you can find a willing Iraq veteran under 21 that is willing to go to jail for a day or two for his freedom to drink alcohol, your event will be a success.

Of course, you will need to find a way to get the press' attention before the event in order to publicize it, and writing a letter to the ABC is probably the best way to do it.  If they try to sue you to prevent this from happening, it is even more likely that your impact will be greater than anticipated.  This is what happened to me!

This will definitely be a success if you can find two people willing to absorb the suffering necessary to carry it out!  :)
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2005, 01:25 AM NHFT »

As long as you can find a willing Iraq veteran under 21 that is willing to go to jail for a day or two for his freedom to drink alcohol, your event will be a success.
Shouldn't be too hard.  He'd be a hero among his peers.

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Kat Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2005, 05:25 AM NHFT »

Do it in front on a bATF building :)  That'll get their attention! They'll probably kill you, though...
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2005, 11:00 AM NHFT »

Awesome... can you get me in touch with the guy who's doing this drinking age protest so I can write a press release about him ?  PM me whatever info you think I should have for contacting him.
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j_freeman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2005, 01:51 PM NHFT »

Great idea, rocketman. Hope this act of civil disobedience goes as good as the licensing one in NH. I feel like doing a little bit of civil disobedience myself, so exciting. :D
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2005, 03:30 PM NHFT »

Great idea, rocketman. Hope this act of civil disobedience goes as good as the licensing one in NH. I feel like doing a little bit of civil disobedience myself, so exciting. :D
Give us your idea and we will tell you "Go for it!" and everyone else can say "you don't want to get in trouble" ;)
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Dave Ridley

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2005, 05:39 PM NHFT »

whoop never mind about the press release I see mike has it under control...good writing mike!
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Rocketman

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2005, 05:42 PM NHFT »

We're working on finding an underage vet who is willing -- I don't think it will take long.

To be clear: it's Sidney's idea, and his action.? I'm just supporting him, and I'll follow up with LTE's urging a new debate over the drinking age law and the erosion of liberty in general.

Another angle is that Sidney is a bartender, so he spends his working hours serving beverages, but wouldn't be allowed to serve an underage vet.? As for location, we figured he'd just do it on the steps of the Floyd County Courthouse in Prestonsburg (a small town -- 3000 folks).? If the tv cameras are rolling, I imagine the cops would have to arrest him.? The letters will state his intention of continuing to periodically reward underage vets with six-packs. ?Frankfort is a two hour drive, and I'm not sure traveling is necessary.? I agree that letters should be sent to ABC and perhaps other authorities, as well as press releases to all media well in advance of the event.

Mike, I appreciate your help with the press release.? Once the plan is finalized, we'll do a final version and distribute it.? We've got plenty of time to refine the approach. ?What's the best timetable for sending out the letters and press releases? ?Should anybody other than ABC get a letter, or can they be expected to pass the word along to other authorities who would consider themselves relevant?

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libertyhound

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Re: Civil Disobedience Idea -- Feedback Wanted
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2005, 06:01 PM NHFT »

Hey Guys,

Sid here. I am glad you are all supporting our disobedience. This is a great idea i feel and perfect fot his area. although most people won't get it i think it might actually wake a few people up around here. I am employed as a bartender so i am not sure what this is gonna do to my job. Maybe my boss will be all about it as it could turn into publicity for the bar. I am gonna talk to him about it this week and see what is said. If i lose my job its no biggie and it might actually drive the point home even more. Hell if the ABC would beat me with a big stick it would be great but i doubt that happening. i think this is to be planned for just before july 4th. great timing there i think. Keep throwing support and ideas our way. Thanks for everything guys and i will see you at porc fest!!!!
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