Ticketed for not having paid gov't (vehicle registration)

[John Edward Mercier]

Its a simple matter. Either you personally own it... or don't. If you don't... then you either need permission of the owner, or the management. All land has a specific owner listed on the taxing maps...

[dalebert]

who decides who owns the property?

The taxing maps, silly! It's like the bible, only in map form.

[Russell Kanning]

Its a simple matter. Either you personally own it... or don't.

Since I own the roads .... I will be sending you a bill for using them.

[John Edward Mercier]

The taxing maps are compilations of deeded information on property ownership. I understanded the term 'taxing' is bothersome... but the relevance of the ownership is the main consideration.

Russ,
Some roads are privately owned. But public roads are not.

[Russell Kanning]

Who says?
I hear the UN says they own the road out in front of your house. What if they send you a bill?

[David]

You have an inalienable right to self determination... its called Free Will.
You don't have the right to be on the property of another without following their rules... its called trespass.

I agree but who's property are you talking about? Who owns NH? I dispute the claims of ownership of those who claim authority over everyone in NH or any other state.

That is the heart of the matter.  The gov't stole the money to buy the land, and build the road, and frequently stole the land from those that didn't want to sell.  They have no ownership of anything.  They have authority, by virtue of having guns and a real willingness to use them on people like me. 
they charge you for permission to drive on the roads, not to be on them, but to drive on them.  On most roads, (interstates are an exception) anyone can be on them , as long as they follow convention and walk or bike on the side.  Those have unlimited permission.  Then the gov't zones the land.  A gross abuse of private property rights.  Zoning is only possible if autos are widely available, to the extent that it is today.  I do not want to pay for their permission to drive to my job on the other end of town, (due to zoning), on roads that were effectively stolen.  I will not respect the property rights of an organization, that tramples the rights of others, yet somehow wants me to respect their 'rights'. 

[John Edward Mercier]

The road in front of my home belongs to the town of Belmont...
It was offered to the town... they accepted, and and the deed was registered.

Most State highways were King's highways that the State 'adopted' upon our independence. Most local roads come about from the above relationship. Though many towns are now either refusing to accept the roads... or turning them to Class VI.

Land taken by eminent domain for highways must be paid for. The system has specific funding.
State turnpikes are paid for through tolls. State highways are paid for through the State gas tax. And local roads are paid for through property taxes... with the value portion of registration being a property tax.

[David]

Knowing the roads offered to them had to be maintained, the gov't had no business accepting the gift. 
Eminent domain is legal theft.  The specific funding the gov't imposes is theft.  the gas tax is theft.  the property tax is theft. 
The gov't is the number one their in the nation.  Their only competition is other gov'ts units in the country, and the mafia. 

[srqrebel]

The road in front of my home belongs to the town of Belmont...
It was offered to the town... they accepted, and and the deed was registered.

Most State highways were King's highways that the State 'adopted' upon our independence. Most local roads come about from the above relationship. Though many towns are now either refusing to accept the roads... or turning them to Class VI.

Land taken by eminent domain for highways must be paid for. The system has specific funding.
State turnpikes are paid for through tolls. State highways are paid for through the State gas tax. And local roads are paid for through property taxes... with the value portion of registration being a property tax.

So many words to describe what could have been described wth one: THEFT.

Funds obtained through theft, or coercion, do not belong to the thief.  Roads built and maintained using dishonorably obtained funds, do not belong to the thief, either, no matter how many laws the thief creates to try and make it so, and no matter how many people are okay with that arrangement.

[David]

Actually due to the possibility of them stealing my car, and imprisoning me, it would be a hell of a lot easier to just pay the registration.  I don't because I believe it is extortion and theft.  It is the theft, that I am resisting.  The inconvenience will be significant, as it is intended by the gov't.  I don't live to pay for the politicians slush fund. 

[John Edward Mercier]

So if one of you 'owned' the road... and I used it without submitting payment... that wouldn't be theft?

The problem is you see the word 'government'.
If the road was offered to a private entity with the understanding they would maintain it... no problem.
If the private entity required payment for its use... no problem.
But the second a collective (roads are accepted by town vote), then it becomes a problem.

I finally get it. Government should give us anything we want for free... and make someone else pay... then its not evil.

[srqrebel]

So if one of you 'owned' the road... and I used it without submitting payment... that wouldn't be theft?

The problem is you see the word 'government'.
If the road was offered to a private entity with the understanding they would maintain it... no problem.
If the private entity required payment for its use... no problem.
But the second a collective (roads are accepted by town vote), then it becomes a problem.

I finally get it. Government should give us anything we want for free... and make someone else pay... then its not evil.

No, obviously you don't get it.

There is no such thing as a collective, except as an abstract concept.  Individuals have rights.  "Collectives" do not.  When "collectives" steal from individuals through force-backed extortion, it really is just individuals forcibly imposing their will on their fellow individuals, in the name of an abstract concept that can by "it's" very "nature" have no right to do so.  That constitutes a violation of individual/property rights.

Any individual or collection of individuals that obtains the land and other resources to build and maintain roads by honorable (100% voluntary) means, has/have the right to make rules regarding the use of such road, as well as charge for its use.

Nope, government should not give us anything for free.  Force-backed government should not even exist in the first place.  Unfortunately, it does exist -- and the only way an individual can exercise his sovereignty in our current upside down "civilization" is to engage in civil disobedience.

Roads in our current anti-civilization are not the private property of any one individual.  The funds used to build them were obtained by coercion from large numbers of individuals, and there is simply no way to determine who all has been extorted, and make restitution.  In order to get from here to a civilization where individual rights are genuinely respected as a matter of course, there has to be a transition from "State" to private ownership, regardless of who was unfortunately wronged under the old (current) system.

The transition has to start somewhere.  I for one, refuse to perpetuate the current criminal collectivist system through force-backed taxes, and I likewise refuse to follow the criminal orders of others who wish to enforce the "will" of "the collective" on me.  When the man with a badge has actual ownership rights (hence honorably obtained), I will gladly submit to his rules and pay his fees, or else keep off his property.

[John Edward Mercier]

There are no property rights outside the government.
Why do you think the Native Americans had such a problem with the concept?

The road was freely given to the collective (whether that be a government or group of people in a commune does not matter). The collective has imposed a charge for usage. You freely have chosen to use... but do not pay the charge. What would you call that?

How about you drive up and down the Mt. Washington Auto road without paying the $20 charge...
Its a private road... what would you call this?

[armlaw]

There are no property rights outside the government.
Why do you think the Native Americans had such a problem with the concept?

The road was freely given to the collective (whether that be a government or group of people in a commune does not matter). The collective has imposed a charge for usage. You freely have chosen to use... but do not pay the charge. What would you call that?

How about you drive up and down the Mt. Washington Auto road without paying the $20 charge...
Its a private road... what would you call this?

Theft.

Now consider Article 90, Part II New Hampshire constitution. This Article has never been amended, hence is currently the supreme law of this land. Further, the only property that existed subsequent to the Treaty of Paris and the ratification by the peope in 1784 was allodial property. Look it up so you'll know what Allodial property is and the manner in which property was exchanged and what was enumerated on the deed's. Look them up so you'll know how to craft your deeds and "Bill of Sale"'s such as;  "In receipt of one silver dollar and other valuable consideration, I_________do hereby sell, barter and convey to______........."(you must do it yourself as a belligerent, and use one silver dollar of "lawful money".for the consideration. FRN's are mere debt instruments, and one can not pay with a debt, hence allodial property can not be purchased with a debt instruments. As for property, as an automobile, (not a motor vehicle, that is the commercial name used by corporate government), the automobile must have a "Bill of Sale" showing that it was purchased for "One silver dollar" and "other valuable consideration (whatever you accept) and include the language that the described automobile is allodial property. One silver dollar must be part of the exchange. The "Bill of Sale" is then "registered" with the county clerk who will give the original instrument an official number, for which you will pay a small fee. The Bill of Sale is returned to you and, VOILA, your automobile is registered, once and for all. You will receive a page number and volume number showing the volume and page where your common law instrument is registered as allodial property, which can NOT BE TAXED! Forgive me but I read all this crap from people who have not done their homework and made decisions upon what they may learn. I am not a lawyer or and attorner, and would never be one, so don't rely on what I have shared for your consideration. Do you own homework. Get a volume number and page number for your automoblie and make your own registration plates using those numbers as, that is where your "registration" is recorded. Use the COMMON LAW against the CORPORATE THIEVES and restore your guaranteed Article 4, Section 4 Republic. A one time fee for registering youur automobile and avoding annual tax for commercial inspection. The corporate state can not force you to enter into a contract with an independent inspection station, hence avoid that annual hassel and expense.

[David]

There are no property rights outside the government.
Why do you think the Native Americans had such a problem with the concept?

The road was freely given to the collective (whether that be a government or group of people in a commune does not matter). The collective has imposed a charge for usage. You freely have chosen to use... but do not pay the charge. What would you call that?

How about you drive up and down the Mt. Washington Auto road without paying the $20 charge...
Its a private road... what would you call this?

Uhmm, refresh my history.  why is the trail of tears called the trail of tears? 
Pulease, this gov't has no concept of private property.  Neither did the white settlers pushing for more Indian land to be 'liberated', then turned into free homesteads.[/b]  I don't believe in the myth of the noble Indian, but lets not make new myths about the noble gov't. 
I have been robbed twice in my life.  The gov't steals from me in most of my transactions, (sales tax, in ohio), the price of rent includes the gov't rent on land, (property tax), and the gov't steals from me yearly for income and social security tax.  The guy who stuck a pistol in my face didn't steal from me yearly. 
I didn't ask for the roads.  I don't believe I should pay for them.  I am not the one who voted to zone the city where I live.  I would love to live closer to work, but I cannot afford to live in the limited housing near downtown that was grandfathered in before zoning.  Gov't makes it necessary to drive.