"Vaccinate your kids or go to jail!"

[kola]

the fricken CDC advises pregnant gals to avoid eating food with mercury but they promote that they get flushots with merc.

makes no sense.

Kola

[coffeeseven]

the fricken CDC advises pregnant gals to avoid eating food with mercury but they promote that they get flushots with merc.

makes no sense.

Kola

Right you are.

You guys are barking up the wrong tree, it looks like.  Turns out that WI-FI is causing autism!

RF causes lots of problems. Not just WIFI. Autism has been with us long before the widespread use of WIFI.

Homeopathic theory just doesn't make any sense.

Have you tried it and it didn't do what you thought it would do, or are you just not familiar with how it works?

The water magically "remembers" the properties of the substance that's supposed to be the healing agent, even though there's nothing of the healing agent chemically in the water.  But why doesn't it remember the properties of fish pee, even though it's been sent through a filtration machine and there's nothing of the pee chemically in the water?

It might but fish pee doesn't really do anything to you after all. Good or bad.

[Faber]

You guys are barking up the wrong tree, it looks like.  Turns out that WI-FI is causing autism!

RF causes lots of problems. Not just WIFI. Autism has been with us long before the widespread use of WIFI.

And thimerosal . . . .

Homeopathic theory just doesn't make any sense.

Have you tried it and it didn't do what you thought it would do, or are you just not familiar with how it works?

I've familiarized myself (on an amateur level) with the medical literature that shows next to 0 efficacy compared to placebo for homeopathy.  If there are some large, controlled, double-blinded trials that show efficacy for homeopathy over placebo, I'd love to take a look at them.

[MaineShark]

Two you listed are flu shots.

For the record, while HIB is an influenza strain, it is not a "flu shot," as in the yearly vaccines.  HIB is a very nasty virus, which is relatively easy to transmit and does a lot of damage.  It is the only vaccine that we've given our son, because that critter is so nasty.

Joe

[kola]

Joe, there are quite a few valid peer reviewed studies indicating the HIB vaccine CAUSES meningitis. HIB is SUPPOSED to PREVENT meningitis but yet it is creating cases. Too often, vaccines are the cause of the disease, yet it is spun in such a fashion to promote more vaccines which in turn create MORE disease. A vicious cycle to say the least.

We have more and more vaccines being "recommended" every year and the kids are becoming sicker and sicker. Talk with folks who do not vax (and do some research as well). You will notice a HUGE seperation where the unvaxed kids are much healthier.

before a parent can make a rational choice on the decisons regarding vaccinations they must to subjected to both sides of the story. Far too often they hear only one side that is loaded with inaccuracy. Damaging young childrens immune systems is a recipe for diasaster. They are now injecting babies with DNA cloned antigens which are nothing but sacrificial experimentations. They are messing with the human blueprints of life. Kids deserve better.

Kola 

[MaineShark]

Joe, there are quite a few valid peer reviewed studies indicating the HIB vaccine CAUSES meningitis. HIB is SUPPOSED to PREVENT meningitis but yet it is creating cases. Too often, vaccines are the cause of the disease, yet it is spun in such a fashion to promote more vaccines which in turn create MORE disease. A vicious cycle to say the least.

We have more and more vaccines being "recommended" every year and the kids are becoming sicker and sicker. Talk with folks who do not vax (and do some research as well). You will notice a HUGE seperation where the unvaxed kids are much healthier.

Well, gee, when I said that HIB is the only vaccine we've given him, it was clearly because we do everything the doctors think we should.

We've done plenty of research on non-vaccination, delayed vaccination, and selective vaccination, and will use only the vaccines we think are useful, and at the times we think they should be used.  Don't presume to imagine that you are more "well-versed" in things than someone else, without knowing the details.  Quite frankly, the behavior you just displayed is no different at all from that of the modern medical establishment.

Joe

[kola]

I have researched and studied the vaccine issue for over 12 years. I am upfront about my opinions and I can back them up. I have challenged several pro-vaccine health professionals to an organized debate and all have refused. Dr Paul Offit, a so-called "vaccine expert intially accepted the challenge and then backed out at the last minute. He is the CDC's "pawn" that writes pro-vaccine literature and tells his lies to parents around the world.   

Tell me Joe, where you aware of the studies showing the HIB vax causes menigitis, the same disease the vax is supposed to prevent?

Kola

[MaineShark]

Tell me Joe, where you aware of the studies showing the HIB vax causes menigitis, the same disease the vax is supposed to prevent?

Yes.  And the studies showing it doesn't.

There are "studies" showing that alcohol "causes" lung cancer.  Doesn't mean that it does.

Joe

[kola]

Joe, could you provide a link to a study that specifically PROVES the HIB vax does not cause meningitis?

Kola

[kola]

btw I noticed you quotated "studies". I am talking strickly peer reviewed medical journals. (JAMA, BMJ, etc). Kola

[MaineShark]

Joe, could you provide a link to a study that specifically PROVES the HIB vax does not cause meningitis?

I suppose I could, but I have no particular interest in wasting the time it would take to dig through past research and find some, just to satisfy someone who tries to tell others how to raise their children.  There are names for folks who do that, among them being "Glenn F. Ivey" and "C. Philip Nichols Jr."

On the other hand, just to be technical, you cannot "prove" anything in these sort of situations.  Anyone claiming they can "prove" something by statistical methods is a hack, not a scientist.  Statistical methods can show correlations and sometimes imply causation, but they can never prove it.

Joe

[kola]

My initial concern was a curious one in regards to how you came to the conclusion to undergo the HIB vax for your child/ren.

I have no problems admitting when I am wrong and I am always open to new thoughts/ideas and research in relation to vaccines.

My apologies if I offended you.

Kola

   

[John Edward Mercier]

I always find it difficult to discuss the vaccine issue with a few short sentences and jump from topic to topic. It is such a complex and emotionally based topic that it becomes quite the challenge to get to the truth of matters. Anyway:


quote:Wikipedia list Europe as having the current non-thermisol DTP vaccine (link below)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine
================================================

wikipedia is not considered reliable peer review medical info.  Even if it is true that Europe DPT has no preservative that is of little help here to USA folks. 

I'm also told that the single dose packages in the US do not contain thermisol, but an ingredients list should not be hard to come by. I just tried to answer the question where it was available.


quote: Check with your pediatrician to see if you can specifically request it (very good activism subject here as all options should be available).
===============================================
Pediatricians would be the last people I would ask. their bread and butter revolves around jabbing innocent kids with toxic poisons.

To suggest a pediatrician should not be trusted... means you should find another pediatrician. If they have access to a non-thermisol vaccine, and its requested... I'm sure this is within the boundries of their oath.

quote:It also contains very pertinent information as to side effects.
===================================================
Most pro-vaccines (CDC based) literature I read is severely biased and blatent lies. 

It list death as a possible outcome... does that sound supportive to you. The entry lists known statistical knowledge of inherent side effects that occur in within the vaccine, even without the thermisol.


quote:
As for the flu vaccines... I personally avoid them. But the methyl mercury has yet to be proven damaging at the preservation dosage level.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Methyl and ethylmerc are  2 different compounds. OTOH just because something is "not proven" does not mean it is safe. This is the pro-vaccine battle cry. Then when it is (without a doubt) proven, it is quickly ridiculed as a sham, the researchers are attacked, the VALID UNDENIABLE research is quickly scoffed at and swept under the rug.(ie Geier and Geier Study, Dr Andrew Wakefield's study) 

Big Pharm has total control.   

Alex Jones's webpage is doing a great job of tracking the forced vax issues. That scenario is another great example of the ignorant people ( health pros, school nurses etc and the corrupt corporate media) who flat-out lie to the public...and then they have the fricken nerve to threaten people who do not comply with jailtime.

There is no law that says you must vaccinate. It is pure and evil deception.

Taken from another thread in the forum (thanks mvpel)
The US Supreme Court has already ruled on compulsory vaccinations as a public health measure:

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, [25 S.Ct. 358, 197 U.S. 11, 49 L.Ed. 643, 3 Am.Ann.Cas. 765 (1905)]

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/March2002/JacobsonVMassachusetts.htm

Quote
The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.  


Kola

[kola]

my apologies for trying to respond into the quoted mirage with colors etc. I hope it is not too hard to follow.  next time I will just copy and past the text. errrrrrrr. Kola 

I always find it difficult to discuss the vaccine issue with a few short sentences and jump from topic to topic. It is such a complex and emotionally based topic that it becomes quite the challenge to get to the truth of matters. Anyway:


quote:Wikipedia list Europe as having the current non-thermisol DTP vaccine (link below)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine
================================================

wikipedia is not considered reliable peer review medical info.  Even if it is true that Europe DPT has no preservative that is of little help here to USA folks. 

I'm also told that the single dose packages in the US do not contain thermisol, but an ingredients list should not be hard to come by. I just tried to answer the question where it was available.

Kola says:I have yet to find single dose vaccines without mercury. If you are aware of any that is available for the public I would appreciate you sharing that info. You cannot even get a single dose of tetanus anymore. You either get DPT or Td. Once again this makes no sense but makes 'cents" to Big Pharm.


quote: Check with your pediatrician to see if you can specifically request it (very good activism subject here as all options should be available).
===============================================
Pediatricians would be the last people I would ask. their bread and butter revolves around jabbing innocent kids with toxic poisons.

To suggest a pediatrician should not be trusted... means you should find another pediatrician. If they have access to a non-thermisol vaccine, and its requested... I'm sure this is within the boundries of their oath.

I have yet to find a Ped who acknowledged the severity of vax dangers and hung up his coat. I have yet to find a Ped who will admit the serious risks of vaxs. He or she cannot go against the system or they will become ostrasized from their practice, lose privledges etc. Their bread and butter is vaccines and they cannot  keep to their oath which is "First do no harm". There is more than enough evidence that prove some vaccines have a high risk to do harm, including death, yet I find many Peds who know little about their own medical research that clearly shows these serious adverse effects. Even when presented with the studies they refuse to acknowledge it. From a mental/pysch point of view, to accept what is presented would bring their world crashing down and they would have to come to the realization that they have maimed and killed millions of kids by exposing them to toxic vaccines. To date there is not ONE pediatrician who has the courage to step forward and admit that vaccines are destroying immune systems. There have been many MD's who have crossed the line but never a Ped. Those MD's have been excommunicated from the sacred school of medicine by their spineless peers. I have heard and interviewed many parents who questioned vaccines with their ped and attempted to discuss the adverse effects and almost always the peds became irritated, spouted off the vaccine myths without research to back it and many have refused to treat their children after the confrontation. Other "doubting Thomas's" peds have later reported the parents to child abuse agencies and they then paid a visit to the parents homes. Nice huh? so much for "oaths" and "the good doctor".    [colore=blue] 
===================================================
Most pro-vaccines (CDC based) literature I read is severely biased and blatent lies. 

It list death as a possible outcome... does that sound supportive to you. The entry lists known statistical knowledge of inherent side effects that occur in within the vaccine, even without the thermisol.


Ask for a flyer from a ped office regarding vaccine risks. The CDC creates them. They are blantent lies and they sugarcoat the issue. They are useless trash. The best info is on vaccine package inserts which come with the vials of vaccines. Most MD"s and peds have never read them. They can be obtained online and will blow you away. The info on those inserts are RARELY if ever told to the public. And yes there are more ingredients (than mercury) that are damaging to immature immune systems. A quick internet search will provide plenty of info and lets not forget about contamination, genetic (DNA) mutational experiements and the conflicts of interest regarding research and safety standards. The Pharm companies do their own research. They are millions if not billions to made on one new vaccine. It is all one big corporate smoke and mirror show and the "seller" is fear. It has been working for 70 years and most sheeple have bought into it. Hitler was right, if you tell a lie long enough and loud enough, people will believe it.



There is no law that says you must vaccinate. It is pure and evil deception.

Taken from another thread in the forum (thanks mvpel)
The US Supreme Court has already ruled on compulsory vaccinations as a public health measure:

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, [25 S.Ct. 358, 197 U.S. 11, 49 L.Ed. 643, 3 Am.Ann.Cas. 765 (1905)]

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/March2002/JacobsonVMassachusetts.htm

Quote
The liberty secured by the Constitution of the United States does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government, should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State.

It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine in the first instance whether vaccination is or is not the best mode for the prevention of smallpox and the protection of the public health.  

The laws of the state are clear in regards to exemption and they still stand and are being exercised in all states by people who chose not to vaccinate. ALL states have exemption status and to the last of my knowledge they are still being honored but like in the Mass scenario the commonfolk are not aware there is an exemption. (See NVIC or 909shot.com for a listing.) I believe your quote above could pertain to a martial law situation. In that case, yes, they can do whatever they please to the commonfolk and we are SUPPOSED to comply. Fat chance of jabbing my arm. A few years ago, Bush and his Bungling Boobs tried to do a "mandatory" smallpox  nationwide  vaccine program but it failed miserably..and rightfully so. WHY? Medical workers and doctors refused to be the first to be vaccinated. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU????

KOLA

btw, I hope when the discussion is through we can summarize everything. It is always revealing to see what people say and think about vaccines then to actually see what the truth is. This is where people get upset and turn it into a personal attack. So far I have seen several comments that are completely false.

[John Edward Mercier]

First my understanding of the post is the State is requiring the vaccinations. Though exemptions exist, they are seldom used, or for that matter truly available.

Without reviewing each State's statutes the exempts fall under two categories, a religious exemption covering faiths which have a general tenet against such procedures... and one for those that have had reactions attributable to vaccination (mine falls under the second). Since receiving the first dosage is usually required to get the second exempt, any damage is already done... you just avoid further damage that might come from the boosters.