Any Computer Geeks in Da House?

[Caleb]

Well, I started with an Asus M2N4-SLI (I think that's what it is  ) If I had it to do over again, I might not go that route, because I've been reading where some other ASUS users are having the same problem I had initially:  IOAPIC problems with the chip. Not really a problem, because you just go into the options before you install and add "noapic" at the end, but you have to learn that little cheat, and I didn't know it.  The AMD64 processer has worked well for me; I was a little worried because I wasn't sure whether the 64 processer would be supported in ubuntu, but it is, and even if it isn't, you can use the 32 bit system just fine. That's what I'm using, and it still works great. I added a cheap graphics card, cause I don't do any gaming, and salvaged my 3.5" and my DVDBurner from the other system.

If I were going to do it over again, the biggest thing for me has been the wireless card. I would make sure that I had a supported card from the get-go. Unless you have an ethernet connection, which if that's what you're using, no worries there.

I think with Ubuntu (or linux in general) you don't really need as much system resources, because linux just doesn't demand the resources the way windows does. I've only got 2 gig of ram. Keep in mind that I'm upgrading from 300MB of ram though, so it's quite an upgrade for me.

I just got Hardy up and running. I kept having bad burns, but finally got it working. Wow! It's great. The only problem so far that I've noticed is that the Konquerer browser doesn't want to surf the net for me, but that wasn't a big deal, I just downloaded Firefox real quick. As always, the plugins are missing (per ubuntus philosophy) so tomorrow I'll probably tweak the system a little. The main deal is it still hasn't recognized my wireless card, but since the EVDO is up and running now (thanks to trusty KPPP) that's not an issue.

I can't emphasize how great Hardy is. Just playing around with it, I hardly want to go to bed. I just want to keep playing with it. It's like a new toy.

[Caleb]

sudo aptitude install ubuntu-restricted-extras

ok, so I am assuming that for kubuntu this will be a little different?

sudo adept install kubuntu-restricted-extras

does that sound right?

edit: never mind. I used apt-get and it worked perfectly, and now I have all my plugins in a fraction of the time that it took to work with Automatix. Ubuntu is really getting to the point where I feel like I can recommend it to anyone as a standard operating system. When I started, I started on Hoary, and that was an adventure. Nothing seemed to want to work right. Now, though, everything is quick and easy. Easier, really, than Windows XP.

Wireless is the only drawback ... in my experience.

[Caleb]

Alright, last question, (I think):

I noticed that KDE just came out with a brand spanking new release. Does anyone know if it is worth upgrading to?

[K. Darien Freeheart]

f I had it to do over again, I might not go that route, because I've been reading where some other ASUS users are having the same problem I had initially:

Asus has a great reputation and has always ranked very high for people in terms of satisfaction. That said, I've NEVER had an Asus board that worked right.

I was a little worried because I wasn't sure whether the 64 processer would be supported in ubuntu, but it is, and even if it isn't, you can use the 32 bit system just fine.

The 32/64 bit thing ONLY matters for non-free software. It's not exactly trivial to port a 32 bit app to 64 bit there's always someone going to do it if they have source access. The "not supported" thing was a Windows' users nightmare and, for a smaller fraction of people, when Adobe released Flash plugins for GNU/Linux but only for 32 bit systems.

Anyway... For the record, both AMD and Intel's chips have 32-bit translation instruction sets. Like you said, you can run 32 bit software on a 64 bit system. The benefit on GNU/Linux is that 32 bit libraries are in the repos. I'm not sure if Windows can do this (and honestly, don't care) but install Wine on a 64 bit system and you can run 32-bit binaries just fine in most cases. For a GNU/Linux user today, there is no reason I can think of to use 32-bit on an AMD64 type processor.

Ubuntu is really getting to the point where I feel like I can recommend it to anyone as a standard operating system.

Have you ever installed Windows XP from a totally fresh install? Windows XP includes only basic drivers (I've never had sound work out of the box) , no productivity software (like Office), limited media playback capability (codecs) and improperly configured screen resolution. Other than being familiar enough with Windows to install your sound drivers and stuff quickly, what reservations did you have before?

I see that you build your systems so I'm assuming you HAVE done a fresh XP install - it's rare in my experience that someone who's installed Windows themselves claim's GNU/Linux isn't usable. It's the people who turn their computers on to a fully installed, pre-configured XP that tend to argue it's "not ready".

I noticed that KDE just came out with a brand spanking new release. Does anyone know if it is worth upgrading to?

There are two KDE lines right now. There's KDE 3.5 (currently at 3.5.9) and there's KDE 4 (currently at 4.0.2, I think). If you want a functional desktop system, do NOT move to KDE 4. KDE 3.5.9 is fine to use. If you're curious, Kubuntu has a KDE4 based LiveCD to try out. It's pretty looking but unstable and not very usable. The KDE developers basically said "Commercial vendors aren't going to start basing on KDE 4 until we give them a point-oh release. So they made a point-oh release and told USERS "Wait till 4.1".

[Caleb]

You know, it's funny, but I just recently did a fresh install of XP for the first time ever, (before, I had always done an upgrade.) The sound issue was just as you mentioned: no sound support out of the box. I was thinking, "Wow! You guys have the advantage of a near monopoly and stranglehold on the community, and you can't even get my sound working out of the box?" I had to download the driver off the cd that came with my motherboard. It was easy, but imagine if I was some guy like my grandpa who has a hard time even figuring out how to turn his computer on? (By the way, since I said a bad thing about Asus, I should also give them credit where credit is due, the sound card that is attached to the motherboard is actually really good, so you don't necessarily need a separate sound card.)

In Kubuntu, sound works out of the box. Every time. 

You're right that Windows doesn't come preinstalled with a lot of the software I need. IE, just like Mozilla, was lacking a lot of the necessary plugins. I guess the main difference is that in Windows, it tells you, "Hey, you need this. Do you want me to get it for you?" Easy for my grandpa. Whereas, in Mozilla it says, "Hey. You need this. Sorry." Grandpa doesn't have any idea of what he needs or how to go about getting it.

So, when I had Hoary, I downloaded each and every thing that I needed individually. That took hours. And to be honest, back then the plugins weren't that great. My Quicktime viewer, for instance, would let me see the top half of the screen, and fill the bottom half with static. My mplayer plugin was also buggy. Half the time it would display, and half the time it would say "stopped" and I'd have to press the little play button. I doubt grandpa would have got past the, "It just doesn't work" factor.

[BaRbArIaN]

How good is Ubuntu for drivers?   I'm thinking of converting my old Dell Dimension 4500, has 1.8Ghz proc, 1Gig ram, GEForce4 graphics card, onboard sound etc.  I also have it connected to a Linksys wireless hub and a Verizon DSL modem, which I know firsthand Verizon wants nothing to do with assisting me with (called them for a friend who had trouble with his linux box hooking into Verizon DSL, eventually they transferred me to their linux helpdesk, i.e. a separate company who charges money,  *who didn't even know Verizon transferred them to me*.  I've never heard of a company sending you to another company without a known relationship between the companies.

[Caleb]

Not sure, myself. Wireless is a problem.

The Verizon EVDO card works well for me with KPPP. I don't think I even have a DSL port on my computer or modem. The only thing about the Verizon EVDO card is that it MUST be activated using windows. There isn't any getting around that. Once it's activated, though, you can use it on any linux machine just by plugging it into your usb port, and using KPPP to access it.

The best thing to do is try the Ubuntu live CD and see if it works. I've never had a problem with Ubuntu not recognizing the video or sound card myself, but the live CD could tell you a lot about what it will do without changing your system.

I also found Verizon to be a headache for customer support for linux.

[error]

I activated a Verizon DSL connection using a Windows installation inside VMware.

Oh, also, if you want to run those nice 32-bit Mozilla plugins on your 64-bit Linux, get nspluginwrapper. (On Fedora you already have it, and It Just Works.)

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I also have it connected to a Linksys wireless hub and a Verizon DSL modem

The DSL modem isn't an issues at ALL unless you're trying to connect via USB (in which case it might work, but i've never tried). Ethernet is standard and you've be hardpressed to find ANY ethernet device that didn't have support.

The tricky part for you is going to be the wireless card inside your computer. It could be supported perfectly out of the box or it could be a totally incompatible piece of firmware requiring crap. Without knowing the specific chipset we can't tell you more.

How good is Ubuntu for drivers?

Linux in general has far superior support in terms of the number of devices that work automagically. The number of devices that it simply DOESN'T work with is pretty small, but when it doesn't work, it simply doesn't work at ALL, and never will.

GEForce4 graphics card

Like Windows, it will boot. However, once you have the system installed Ubuntu will prompt you for "Restricted drivers" (boo!) which it will find and install for you automatically. I don't use Ubuntu enough to know if the NEXT step is automatic but once you've rebooted from that, the 3D desktop effects will make Windows Vista pale in comparison.

The only thing about the Verizon EVDO card is that it MUST be activated using windows. There isn't any getting around that.

This is because of Verizon's policy, not because of the hardware itself or Linux. Verizon requires activation of ALL of it's services with WIndows only crap. It's why I haven't used Verizon. Bastards.

I also found Verizon to be a headache for customer support for linux.

I've personally found Verizon support to be a headache for Windows too. The don't need to know what OS you're running before they tell you 'The problem is on your end' and then go to re-provision your DSL at 1.5 megs but charge your for 7.1.

Can you tell Verizon's earned a pretty high spot on my shitlist?

[Dan]

I was a little worried because I wasn't sure whether the 64 processer would be supported in ubuntu

Believe it or not, linux had support for AMD64 before anyone else.  BEFORE the chips even shipped!

Thank you, AMD, for publishing the full specs months before production.

[Dan]

in Windows, it tells you, "Hey, you need this. Do you want me to get it for you?" Easy for my grandpa. Whereas, in Mozilla it says, "Hey. You need this. Sorry."

Ubuntu is working on that.  Totem, the multimedia player, now prompts you if you'd like to install recognized but not installed codecs.

You didn't see it, because (k)ubuntu-restricted-drivers pulls them ALL in. 

( oh, and I think kubuntu doesn't use totem... it's a gnome thing. )

As for eye candy?  Look for the menu item "Appearance" You'll spend a whole day playing with fancy widgets.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

Thank you, AMD, for publishing the full specs months before production.

I'm a fanboy going through withdrawl. I'm about 70% convinced that I've got an Intel processor with a bug, as rare as such things are. I'm also willing to accept a BIOS fault. Whenever I'm in the middle of a long compile (today it was a Qtopia image for my phone) my system will shut down. My first suspect was heat but it's not the problem since running KVM guests shoot my temps up quite a bit more than the compiles actually do.

My AMD systems never gave me this trouble.

Ubuntu is working on that.  Totem, the multimedia player, now prompts you if you'd like to install recognized but not installed codecs.

Ahem... Gnome fixed this issue, the codec finder is part of Gnome 2.22 which has been in Sid for "a while" now. /me ducks

oh, and I think kubuntu doesn't use totem... it's a gnome thing

Totem on KDE is ugly in terms of bloat. Kaffeine should be just as good in Kubuntu, fit in nicer and be arguably more usable.

[41mag]

Well, I started with an Asus M2N4-SLI (I think that's what it is  ) If I had it to do over again, I might not go that route, because I've been reading where some other ASUS users are having the same problem I had initially:  IOAPIC problems with the chip. Not really a problem, because you just go into the options before you install and add "noapic" at the end, but you have to learn that little cheat, and I didn't know it.  The AMD64 processer has worked well for me; I was a little worried because I wasn't sure whether the 64 processer would be supported in ubuntu, but it is, and even if it isn't, you can use the 32 bit system just fine. That's what I'm using, and it still works great. I added a cheap graphics card, cause I don't do any gaming, and salvaged my 3.5" and my DVDBurner from the other system.

If I were going to do it over again, the biggest thing for me has been the wireless card. I would make sure that I had a supported card from the get-go. Unless you have an ethernet connection, which if that's what you're using, no worries there.

I think with Ubuntu (or linux in general) you don't really need as much system resources, because linux just doesn't demand the resources the way windows does. I've only got 2 gig of ram. Keep in mind that I'm upgrading from 300MB of ram though, so it's quite an upgrade for me.

I just got Hardy up and running. I kept having bad burns, but finally got it working. Wow! It's great. The only problem so far that I've noticed is that the Konquerer browser doesn't want to surf the net for me, but that wasn't a big deal, I just downloaded Firefox real quick. As always, the plugins are missing (per ubuntus philosophy) so tomorrow I'll probably tweak the system a little. The main deal is it still hasn't recognized my wireless card, but since the EVDO is up and running now (thanks to trusty KPPP) that's not an issue.

I can't emphasize how great Hardy is. Just playing around with it, I hardly want to go to bed. I just want to keep playing with it. It's like a new toy.

[/size]I'm also upgrading from a 320MB ram system.  I've decided on the AMD 64 processor, and now my big question is Fedora Core 8 or Fedora Core 9?  9 won't be out until after I get the system up and running, so how difficult would it be to upgrade?

Totem on KDE is ugly in terms of bloat. Kaffeine should be just as good in Kubuntu, fit in nicer and be arguably more usable.

It been easier for me to run Kaffeine on my 500Mhz P3 than Totem.  Not that either are easy.     Top reports about 60% idle with just KDE and a few apps (Kmail, Ktorrent <-- biggest problem) running. 

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I'm also upgrading from a 320MB ram system.

Putting things in perspective... My phone is a 266 mhz processor with 256MB of RAM and it runs Linux.

I've decided on the AMD 64 processor, and now my big question is Fedora Core 8 or Fedora Core 9?

How well can you handle either? Personally, as much as I love Fedora's project management, objectives, innovation and beautiful artwork, I hate.. hate... hate... hate.. hate.. the Red hat Package Mangler. I have never has a single install last past 5 application installs without throwing the thing into chaos and dependency hell. Perhaps this is my mismanagement but I hate RPM. With a passion.

Fedora's team, at least as recently as the release of Fedora 8, has unofficially recommended fresh installs with every release. The idea is to be on the bleeding edge but not to have the most backwards compatible, longest continual life. That said, I know people who have upgraded from 5 to 6 to 7 to 8. As usual, your mileage may vary.

Top reports about 60% idle with just KDE and a few apps (Kmail, Ktorrent <-- biggest problem) running.

Xorg takes up a pretty hefty chunk of your resident memory too. Just be thankful you're not running Firefox too.