Question about moving to NH - Should we consider it?

[Shootemup]

Great forum here and I'm glad to be a member.  I have a decision to make, and a slight dilemma, so hopefully you guys can give me some direction, advice, and info.

Well, after living in NY and South Florida for my whole life so far, last year, the wife and I made the move to Western Colorado. We picked up a house built in 2000 on 30 acres, backing up to 55,000 acres of protected land. I shoot, ride my dirt bike, etc on my property; pretty much my dream. The weather here is pretty close to being perfect, and I love to ski. The wife on the other hand just hasn't taken to what CO has to offer, why I don't know.

Lately, the wife is somewhat freaking out over a few things. One, she is VERY close to her family, and it's just hard and expensive to see much of the family more than 2-3 times per year. I guess I understand it since they are a very close family (immigrating from Italy in the 80's), and want to spend more time together. I'm also a little bummed that I'm not able to visit my father in Florida as much as I want to; especially since he's getting up there in age. Also, we plan on having kids in 1-2 years, and being out here by ourselves with no help to raise them is a little worrisome. I've pretty much narrowed it down to New Hampshire as being the only viable choice. We'd be closer to family (4-5 hour drive), they have great gun laws, and I can find the amount of land I want somewhat reasonably. Also, the ability to fly direct to Florida, cheap is definitly a benefit for me.

Other benefits being the lack of inheritance and estate taxes, as well as BAR reciprocity; my wife is a practicing attorney, and has taken 4 BAR's already, and could care less about taking another ever again.

One of the many houses we're looking at in NH is newer and bigger, nicer, on 30 acres abutting a 15 acre lake and surrounded by ~1500 protected acres. Some of the things that worry me are the property taxes (~$6600/yr as opposed to $650/year here in CO) and heating costs. Just the cost of taxes and the variable cost of oil for heat, we're at almost $10K a year!! One of the reasons I like the situation here in CO is that we can pay off our house in less than 5 years, and the monthly carrying expenses will be around $300/mo; thus enabling us to travel more and work less. Luckily, we have about $150K in equity in our house, which we would roll over into a house we would buy in NH.

Now, aside from the harsh and long winters in New Hampshire, everything seems pretty good. Great gun laws, no sales or income taxes, close to family - BUT I'm just hesitant about moving back to the North East, and the political climate there. I feel, although it seems as if NH is the last hold out, that it might be overtaken eventually. Our living expenses in CO are pretty low, and I think we'd be paying a premium to move to NH. Also, the R/E market in this area of CO is VERY GOOD as well as the economy, so I'm nervous about leaving here and going to a place where possibly we'd be stuck, unable to sell the house there and move back. We are both self employed, working as much or as little as we want here in CO, and probably more than likely, would have to seek employment in NH, at least in the beginning.

Sorry about the somewhat long rant, but I guess what I'm looking for is maybe some advice. How do you NH residents feel about living there?  How do you guys feel about the upcoming elections, as well as the immigration into the state?  I know that there were big changes in the state gov (going dem for the first tie in a long time) as well as big spending increases (~17%), but do you think the tides will turn this election, or is the trend going down hill?

Thanks


Shoot

[error]

Oh, man, you sound confused. But you came to the right place.

Some of the things that worry me are the property taxes (~$6600/yr as opposed to $650/year here in CO) and heating costs. Just the cost of taxes and the variable cost of oil for heat, we're at almost $10K a year!!

You sound as if you don't pay anything in taxes or heating in Colorado! Probably you pay a lot more than $6600 and you have no way to control what the state does with it.

Now, aside from the harsh and long winters in New Hampshire, everything seems pretty good.

What are you talking about? The winter weather's a lot worse in Colorado!

I'm just hesitant about moving back to the North East, and the political climate there. I feel, although it seems as if NH is the last hold out, that it might be overtaken eventually.

That might happen if you DON'T move!

Our living expenses in CO are pretty low, and I think we'd be paying a premium to move to NH.

Maybe to the town tax collector, but you know you make up for that by the lack of taxes in every other area, and unlike in Colorado you can actually have some influence on how the local politicians spend the money they swipe from you, which brings me to...

Sorry about the somewhat long rant, but I guess what I'm looking for is maybe some advice. How do you NH residents feel about living there?  How do you guys feel about the upcoming elections, as well as the immigration into the state?  I know that there were big changes in the state gov (going dem for the first tie in a long time) as well as big spending increases (~17%), but do you think the tides will turn this election, or is the trend going down hill?

The whole country's going to hell, and where you live is no exception. But you won't find more than two people who live within a 50 mile radius of you who want to do anything about it, even if they knew who or what to do, or who even understand the problems. There are no promises in life, of course, but here you at least have a chance to turn back the tide of government.

In short, everything you think you know is wrong.

[Shootemup]

Oh, man, you sound confused. But you came to the right place.

yeah, I guess you can say that.   Hopefully, we'll get some more feedback with time here.

You sound as if you don't pay anything in taxes or heating in Colorado! Probably you pay a lot more than $6600 and you have no way to control what the state does with it.

Actually, it's quite cheap here.  My property taxes here are $650/year.  That's on 30 acres, with a roughly 2,000 sq/ft house built in 2000.

My highest heating+electrical bill has been $118/month.  The temp dips pretty low, the the solar effect helps keep things warm.

What are you talking about? The winter weather's a lot worse in Colorado!

It's pretty mild here in my part of Colorado; western.  300+ sunny day a year, low humidity, about 14" of snow per year.  The one thing I HATE is the lack of rain; only about 9" per year.  Nothing grows out here as it is a desert/arid climate.

That might happen if you DON'T move!

I hear ya.  If we decide, you'll get two fiscally conservative voters.  I keeps tabs on politics, and like the involvement up there.

Maybe to the town tax collector, but you know you make up for that by the lack of taxes in every other area, and unlike in Colorado you can actually have some influence on how the local politicians spend the money they swipe from you, which brings me to...

Here, we have a TABOR(Tax payer bill of rights); basically a floating mill levy.  It's in our state Constitution.  The mill goes down with appreciation in assessed values, as well with population increases among other things.  It's actually pretty good.

The whole country's going to hell, and where you live is no exception. But you won't find more than two people who live within a 50 mile radius of you who want to do anything about it, even if they knew who or what to do, or who even understand the problems. There are no promises in life, of course, but here you at least have a chance to turn back the tide of government.

In short, everything you think you know is wrong.

You're right about the whole country going to hell, and if Obama gets in, I'm going to be really worried with all his "programs".  I've spent a lot of time on the Free State Project website, as well as City Data, and have gotten some great info.  I look forward to hearing some things from the members here.

Thanks for the help.

Shoot

[error]

Oh, you are only thinking of property taxes? Do you not buy food, clothing, home furnishings, and the wide variety of other things which the state and county and city charge sales tax on? They're nickel and diming you to death, most likely, and I'd be surprised if you weren't losing a lot more money to the government than you think. And sales tax is just one thing.

We don't have any desert climates here, so if you want dry, you're coming to the wrong place. You certainly will see more snow than that, but I'd be quite surprised if it was significantly colder.

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Just the cost of taxes and the variable cost of oil for heat, we're at almost $10K a year!!

But NH has NO income tax and no sales tax on most items. The overall tax bill from NH state & local is 8%, compared to 12-14% for other states. And we buy our oil from the same Arabs that Coloradans do. I'm sure you can find a suitable location. What field are you in? Do you need to be near urban Manchester, or can you face the medieval conditions of Dartmouth/Grafton  ?

The one thing I HATE is the lack of rain; only about 9" per year.

That's not a problem here    , one of the reasons kayaking is so good here.

And the local media in Colorado isn't like the Grafton Gazette 

[PattyLee loves dogs]

but do you think the tides will turn this election, or is the trend going down hill?

Honestly, things probably won't completely turn around until the off-year election. Fewer mindless @!#$ straight-ticket presidential-campaign "voters", and more Free Staters with eligibility to run for state rep (2-year residency requirement).

[Lloyd Danforth]

Oh, you are only thinking of property taxes? Do you not buy food, clothing, home furnishings, and the wide variety of other things which the state and county and city charge sales tax on? They're nickel and diming you to death, most likely, and I'd be surprised if you weren't losing a lot more money to the government than you think. And sales tax is just one thing.

We don't have any desert climates here, so if you want dry, you're coming to the wrong place. You certainly will see more snow than that, but I'd be quite surprised if it was significantly colder.

Mike! Take it easy on the guy!

[Shootemup]

Oh, you are only thinking of property taxes? Do you not buy food, clothing, home furnishings, and the wide variety of other things which the state and county and city charge sales tax on? They're nickel and diming you to death, most likely, and I'd be surprised if you weren't losing a lot more money to the government than you think. And sales tax is just one thing.

We don't have any desert climates here, so if you want dry, you're coming to the wrong place. You certainly will see more snow than that, but I'd be quite surprised if it was significantly colder.

Well, I was just working the numbers, and if we were to spend $500 a week on consumer goods, the tax burden would be something like this:

500 x 52 = 26,000
26,000 x 1.065 = 27,690
$1,690 in sales tax paid.

I mean, then there is car registrations, emissions (probably not that much), and utilities all seem to run more up there.

Also, I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard the the mix of snow/salt/humidity absolutely rots/rusts the cars to pieces within 10 years or less; so this is another expense we'd have to consider.

I hope I'm off base in my assumptions, as I really love the makeup of NH, as well as the lush green foliage that we don't have here.  

I guess in the end, it's all a compromise; and that's what it's going to have to be to get to see my parents and family in their later years.

[AntonLee]

Also, I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard the the mix of snow/salt/humidity absolutely rots/rusts the cars to pieces within 10 years or less; so this is another expense we'd have to consider.

I've got a car from 1990. . . not one rust spot. . . park it in major salty areas . . . still no rust.  Wash your car once every couple of weeks.

It's not siberia, it's beautiful New Hampshire

[toowm]

I would agree that your utility costs will go up. Some folks here are using passive heating and other alternatives that might make that more palatable. Search around the forum for some ideas.

Even with TABOR, your total tax bill should generally be lower in NH. Particular communities/properties might be higher, but you will have the opportunity to be much more involved in your local town spending, usually voting line-by-line through the town budget.

The big point I want to make is on your house concerns. If the market is strong in Colorado, then it is a great time to sell. The trough in residential real estate is expected next year, and it could extend into your area. NH prices are off about 30% from the peak in 2005, so it is a good time to buy, although you may see price declines in your first year.

[Shootemup]

I would agree that your utility costs will go up. Some folks here are using passive heating and other alternatives that might make that more palatable. Search around the forum for some ideas.

Even with TABOR, your total tax bill should generally be lower in NH. Particular communities/properties might be higher, but you will have the opportunity to be much more involved in your local town spending, usually voting line-by-line through the town budget.

The big point I want to make is on your house concerns. If the market is strong in Colorado, then it is a great time to sell. The trough in residential real estate is expected next year, and it could extend into your area. NH prices are off about 30% from the peak in 2005, so it is a good time to buy, although you may see price declines in your first year.

And that's the thing.  We bought this house and land about 1.5 years ago, and stand to make quite a bit, due to the R/E boom out here.  We've probably accrued $150-200K in the time.  I understand your logic in the market, and this is one of the reasons why if we choose NH, that this is the time to buy.

[error]

You've got about 6 to 9 months before the really big housing bubble bursts. (What, you thought it was over? It's just beginning.) By then you should have already sold, or it'll likely be too late.

[PattyLee loves dogs]

I agree about the housing market not having bottomed (and I bought SKF early this year, so I've been right so far  )

Well, I was just working the numbers, and if we were to spend $500 a week on consumer goods, the tax burden would be something like this:

What about income tax in CO?

[Shootemup]

I agree about the housing market not having bottomed (and I bought SKF early this year, so I've been right so far  )

Well, I was just working the numbers, and if we were to spend $500 a week on consumer goods, the tax burden would be something like this:

What about income tax in CO?

It's 6%.  We're both self employed, utilizing the US tax code to the fullest.

[error]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about income tax.