Porcs illegally searched in Marlow, NH

[MTPorcupine3]

This is a study on what not to do when a cop pulls you over. Watch"Busted! How do survive police encounters" <http://tinyurl.com/4asrq6>. Why answer any of his questions?

I know YOU know what to do! 
That link is broken.  Got another one?  Thanks, and hope the mew farm is doing great!

Even when you know what to do, it takes practice to be able to do it when the pressure is on.

Not only that, I'm sorry to say, but there's no guarantee about what the cop(s) will do no matter what you do or say.

This might help. Slow the conversation down. If you don't know what to say, say nothing! or, alternatively there's always: "Am I free do go now?" Every time you open your mouth, you exponentially increase your odds of putting your foot in it. For example in this case, what if two guys in the same group gave a different answer to a question–even if each thought he was being "honest"?

From now on, I'm going to be sure that any guest in my car knows what to do or say in case of a pullover.

[David]

All good points. 

[Sam A. Robrin]

I used to very much be on the side of "not all cops are bad" but I believe that less and less and I will not make excuses.

They're increasingly falling back on the politicians' rationale of "You can't blame all of us for what only almost all of us do."

[KBCraig]

This is a study on what not to do when a cop pulls you over. Watch"Busted! How do survive police encounters" <http://tinyurl.com/4asrq6>. Why answer any of his questions?

I know YOU know what to do! 
That link is broken.  Got another one?  Thanks, and hope the mew farm is doing great!

Even when you know what to do, it takes practice to be able to do it when the pressure is on.

Not only that, I'm sorry to say, but there's no guarantee about what the cop(s) will do no matter what you do or say.

This might help. Slow the conversation down. If you don't know what to say, say nothing! or, alternatively there's always: "Am I free do go now?" Every time you open your mouth, you exponentially increase your odds of putting your foot in it. For example in this case, what if two guys in the same group gave a different answer to a question–even if each thought he was being "honest"?

That's the right advice, generally, but in this case it sounds like there was no conversation: the cop just started searching. Tim was right to speak up and declare that he hadn't given consent.

[dalebert]

I called it into Porc 411, but the town of Marlow is having the Selectmen meeting tonight and they're going to be listening to all the calls that came in. Someone called me to let me know that we can call in tonight from 7-9pm (that's right now) and speak to someone in person. I recommend you act with civility if you call since so far they seem responsive. Let's give them a chance to be professional about this. Use the same number that was posted earlier in the thread. Reposting for convenience.

Marlow, NH
Community Contact    Town of Marlow
Jacqui Fay, Executive Administrator
PO Box 184, Town Office
Marlow, NH 03456-0184


Telephone    (603) 446-2245
Fax    (603) 446-3806
E-mail    townofmarlow@netryders.com
Web Site    www.marlow-nh.gov

[Lumpy]

Come on people!  Let's let them know we're not gonna take it!

Marlow, NH
Community Contact    Town of Marlow
Jacqui Fay, Executive Administrator
PO Box 184, Town Office
Marlow, NH 03456-0184


Telephone    (603) 446-2245
Fax    (603) 446-3806
E-mail    townofmarlow@netryders.com
Web Site    www.marlow-nh.gov

I received a call back from Jacqui Fay today as well.  Great!  Very redeeming!  Now CALL!

[Coconut]

Lumpy, what did you say and what did they say back when you talked to someone live?

[Lumpy]

Lumpy, what did you say and what did they say back when you talked to someone live?

Well, Ms. Fay was very polite and passed my call to Dan Kinson (correct spelling of last name?).  I passed on that I am moving to New Hampshire to get away from things like this happening and I didn't think that things like this happened in New Hampshire.  Obviously what happened to you as well as many others I see on here, that this unacceptable behavior still occurs there.  I mentioned the forum and I told him I'd send him a link to the forum via email so he could see what is being discussed (I won't forget to include the Ridley-o either).  I told them that what he did was illegal, that it was thuggish, and basically I recounted the issues that Dale had broadcast on Porc 411.  perhaps I ought to send the town that link as well.
He did say that Meghan's Law may have had something to do with why they were stopped...  something to do with "frosted windows" but in fairness he was not certain.  I did mention the I agreed with the spirit of Meghan's Law but it sounds like it might be one of those "one size fits all" type laws (humorous sarcasm included).
Oddly enough, he told a different story than the one Ms. Fay had mentioned, that there had been numerous calls.  He said that I was the only one.  I had specifically asked how many other calls they had gotten.  Something seems to be missing here, or perhaps being kept "hush hush" which I suspect (been on the force for years, only cop in town, old boy network potential, etc.) is a half-truth (lie).
I mentioned the tactics used by the officer specifically as Dale had recorded on Porc 411 as well.  I was quite expressive of my displeasure.  This stuff has to stop.  If it does, it might as well start in the best place on earth...  New Hampshire!
I'm still pretty ticked even though this did not happen to me directly, but if this was any indication of how they treat people, I will act to protect myself, and they will be notified of my intent if they should ever violate my rights as they did these gentleman.

[MTPorcupine3]

That's the right advice, generally, but in this case it sounds like there was no conversation: the cop just started searching. Tim was right to speak up and declare that he hadn't given consent.

It's always a good idea to lock the door before you get out and position yourself, as you're closing the door behind you, so the officer can't just stick his nose in the car. Busted! shows how to do that. In this case, did Tim just get out of the car without asking why? Did the cop ask him to get out or order him to? I wouldn't get out unless ordered to.  Here's what I might do:

Cop: May I ask you step out of your vehicle, please?

Me: Sure you can ask, officer. But unless I'm required by law to do so, I do not consent to any such request. or Why, officer? or Am I required to do so?

Cop: Yes (you are required to do so).

Me: What happens if I don't?

Cop: I'll arrest you.

Me: Do I understand correctly officer that if I don't get out of the car that you will arrest me?

Cop: That is correct.

Me: All right then. Under threat, duress, and coercion I shall comply.

This theoretical dialogue is based on reading I've done on the subject. If nothing else, it will slow the conversation down. Maybe the cop will start thinking about how to back off gracefully and start looking for easier prey.

[Lumpy]

That's the right advice, generally, but in this case it sounds like there was no conversation: the cop just started searching. Tim was right to speak up and declare that he hadn't given consent.

It's always a good idea to lock the door before you get out and position yourself, as you're closing the door behind you, so the officer can't just stick his nose in the car. Busted! shows how to do that. In this case, did Tim just get out of the car without asking why? Did the cop ask him to get out or order him to? I wouldn't get out unless ordered to.  Here's what I might do:

Cop: May I ask you step out of your vehicle, please?

Me: Sure you can ask, officer. But unless I'm required by law to do so, I do not consent to any such request. or Why, officer? or Am I required to do so?

Cop: Yes (you are required to do so).

Me: What happens if I don't?

Cop: I'll arrest you.

Me: Do I understand correctly officer that if I don't get out of the car that you will arrest me?

Cop: That is correct.

Me: All right then. Under threat, duress, and coercion I shall comply.

This theoretical dialogue is based on reading I've done on the subject. If nothing else, it will slow the conversation down. Maybe the cop will start thinking about how to back off gracefully and start looking for easier prey.

I agree Rich, the point is that we really shouldn't have to deal with this kind of disgusting stuff as a supposedly "free people".  That is wonderful information though, no matter what.  I always love hearing what you offer.

[Kat Kanning]

Sounds like the typical "oh we lost that video" crap they give you.

[Russell Kanning]

man ... what luck ..... just when the video would have helped out a "citizen" ... who'd a thought?

[grasshopper]

  Hmmmm, they must haven't gotten all that federal money for just such equiptment....
  This sounds like bullshit.
   I am getting ready to tell my brother to get off the force or people are going to hate him, including maybe me.

[dalebert]

I called at around 8pm today and spoke to some random person about obtaining a copy of the dash camera video. They ended up calling me back, which I missed, so I returned the call, to find out that "the camera doesn't work and hasn't for the past 6 months". I am not convinced and will continue to pursue the matter.

That may be true, but it's not acceptable, particularly when the professionalism of this one cop is in question. We should be pressuring them to get it fixed, just for starters.

Lumpy, I kind of wish you hadn't said this happens elsewhere but you were hoping not in NH. I hate for them to look at this as if it's standard. It's not. Yes, it happens obviously, but it's not supposed to and it IS the kind of thing that can result in lawsuits. They should be aware of that.

[dalebert]

It wasn't a "may you get out of the car" I was a "get out of the car"

Actually he did ask. I kind of regretted that you complied so quickly. It was so startling though, so I can't really blame you. It was so out of the blue and uncalled for that I think we were all a bit shocked. We were literally baffled as to why we were even pulled over and immediately the guy is on a witch hunt.