I was banned from Murphy's Taproom

[Giggan]

Yes, if you want to eat at a restaurant or order take out delivered and not be despised by the people who are serving you!  Otherwise, stick to fast food and buffets.   

Family Buffet in Concord, don't tip and they yell at you in Chinese on your way out.

[FTL_Ian]

There's the crazy world of tipping again.  I've always wondered about tipping at buffets.  Some say yes, some no.

[AntonLee]

no resolution?  Seems to me that he got his book back AND everyone put in a dollar.

[dalebert]

no resolution?  Seems to me that he got his book back AND everyone put in a dollar.

I just meant that it didn't really resolve this thread, not that it was meant to or anything.

[AntonLee]

no offense Mike, but I do see a resemblance of Mr. Pink and Mike.

[Soundwave]

Uh... you definitely went down a few notches in my book.

Bummer, especially after I just recently learned that I was "OK" in your book.

Yes, I will agree that the custom of tipping is confusing, but not tipping at service restaurant just makes you look like a cheap asshole.

You couldn't or didn't want to find any nicer way of saying this?

There are plenty of places you can eat where a tip is not standard. At Panera, for example, our associates are not allowed to take tips (though I overlook it) because we pay them enough. Some jobs pay by the hour, some are salary, some work for commission, some for tips, etc. When you take a job as a server at a full service restaurant, you agree to work for such small pay, because what you are really working for is tips.

If a person takes a job with an employer that pays $3.00 per hour because that person expects to earn lots more from people being generous, does it become my responsibility to be generous with my money? If I take a job in my industry (IT support) that pays 50% of what normal IT people make, can I then expect all my customers to tip me if I provide extraordinary service, since I'm earning so little? Or, if it's not a percentage thing, let's say I take an IT Support job that pays $3.00 per hour; can I expect my customers to tip me? Are those that don't, cheap assholes? Why are waiters different?

So you think the establishment should pay the servers more money? Why take it out on the server? If they did, the prices would go up, and you'd likely end up spending the same amount of money anyway.  Tipping is rewarding, and can build good relationships if you plan to visit that establishment at a later date. Also, I would think a libertarian would understand and appreciate paying for the service they received. 

All these arguments have been addressed a few times so far.

I have a lot more to say, but the truth is I hate writing. Maybe I'll talk about it on FTL this week, because this is a topic that really grinds my gears!

I hope you're able to control your emotions instead of letting them control you, and think logically about this custom and whether it's arbitrary and whether it's alright if people don't participate in the system you agree with. Also, when you've controlled your emotions, perhaps you won't call people "assholes" because they have a different opinion than you.

Like I said, I hate writing, so I'll address these points on air some time. For the record though, I am actually in complete control of my emotions; if you read what I wrote, you'd see I didn't actually call you an asshole. 

[Soundwave]

I like to attempt to put this in an equally absurd perspective for you:

I have decided that I do not like the common custom of paying for things at a cash register.  I just hate waiting in those lines, as I have so many better things to be doing with my time. Plus, I don't appreciate being treated like cattle. Last night at the grocery store, I loaded up my cart full of items, continually calculating the total cost as I shopped. As I headed out of the store I went ahead and dropped off a stack of cash at the customer service counter, and headed for the door.  Would you believe a manager stopped me right before I left the store?  He told me that while he appreciated my business, they do require that all customers check out at cash registers.  I said to him, "Well if that is the case then why have you not put this requirement on the front door?".  He responded by telling me that it's a common custom, apologized for any confusion, and asked me to come back to the cash registers to check out appropriately.  I told him, "Sir, I have calculated my food cost, and paid over the total amount.  As you can see from the large amount of food in my basket, I have brought you a lot of business tonight.  I disagree with your custom of checking out of cash registers.  Are you saying you do not want my business?"  He told me that he did want my business, but if I was not willing to engage in the common custom of checking out at a cash register, he would have to give me my money and take my food back. I walked out of that store hungry because I stick to my principles.  Good thing they have a dumpster.  There was some moldy bread in there.

I was waiting to see if you would bring up the "social contract" objection. This is not a valid comparison, as coercion is involved in the "social contract".  In regards to the business transactions we are discussing, there is no coercion involved.  Good try!  

I want to say that your couch situation, then, is one against cultural norm that you are fighting, despite it making people like Mark and Julia uncomfortable, but I'm just not sure if the analogy is there.

Your shopping cart example was good. I'm going to think about this.

I'm not sure what you mean. The couch situation doesn't make me uncomfortable at all.

[Fluff and Stuff]

Yes, you are!  What a trip; I've never seen that movie.  That pretty much sums up this entire thread.   

It does sort of sum it up, as in showing some of both sides, but it doesn't resolve it by any means. There are even some of the same misconceptions in there as have been exposed in this thread, like that wait staff makes minimum wage.

Right, they make more than minimum wage (2-3 times as much, sometimes more).    However, they do make minimum wage before tips (at least in NH, we found out that they make more money in some places like LA).  Of course, there are different types of minimum wage.

[Fluff and Stuff]

There's the crazy world of tipping again.  I've always wondered about tipping at buffets.  Some say yes, some no.

If they serve you drinks you should tip on the drinks (even if it is free water).  Of course, you are expected to tip more on drinks (coffee, water, coke, beer...) than on food so at least 50 cents but maybe more.

[Mike Barskey]

no offense Mike, but I do see a resemblance of Mr. Pink and Mike.

hehehe. I'm not surprised. I've heard before that I look like Buscemi. I'll survive.

[Mike Barskey]

I'm not sure what you mean. The couch situation doesn't make me uncomfortable at all.

Oops. I must have misinterpreted something I heard on FTL. I'm behind, and listening to podcasts while I drive places, so I must have not been paying enough attention. I thought both you and Mark were saying to Ian recently that sometimes he says "liberty oriented things" to people when it's awkward, and it sometimes makes you uncomfortable. And I thought his bringing up the couch situation to some of your friends was an example of this. I didn't mean to say that the couch situation itself made you uncomfortable, but it appears I was mistaken anyway.

[Mike Barskey]

There's the crazy world of tipping again.  I've always wondered about tipping at buffets.  Some say yes, some no.

If they serve you drinks you should tip on the drinks (even if it is free water).  Of course, you are expected to tip more on drinks (coffee, water, coke, beer...) than on food so at least 50 cents but maybe more.

I'm honestly not trying to shake the hornets' nest, here, but where do you get this information? Where can I go to learn the "rules" of tipping? Who says "you should tip on the drinks (even if it is free water)?" Where does this tradition start? What if people disagree they should tip for free water? What "should" happen if you don't tip for free water?

[Ryan McGuire]

There's the crazy world of tipping again.  I've always wondered about tipping at buffets.  Some say yes, some no.

My rule is if its a place where they refill my drink, and they bus my table, I tip.

[FTL_Ian]

But what %?  Is 10% appropriate at a buffet, or is that high?

[Ryan McGuire]

But what %?  Is 10% appropriate at a buffet, or is that high?

My wife calls me a "Drink Pig" in that I drink whatever is in front of me. It doesn't matter how many times they refill my drink, I will down it. So, since at a buffet there is no expectation that they would refill my food, I have to base my tip on how attentive they are at refilling my drink. I would tip up to 10% at a buffet... more if I stayed there for longer than regular meal duration.

One thing I HATE though is buffets that have you pay before you get your food and they have that tip line on credit card checks. I always write "0.00" on those since I typically refuse to tip someone  for service that I have yet to receive. At buffets like that I always tip in cash later, once I'm finished eating, which is slightly inconvenient when I have forgotten to go to an ATM in a while.