I have a question about a 12 gauge shotgun

[Pat McCotter]

Someday I plan on getting a 12 gage for home defense, but I have heard about/seen some new high-tech pistol rounds that contain a few small bbs that supposedly increase stopping power while reducing collateral damage in home defense situations. The one person I know who has these is knowledgeable about firearms, but having never tried them out myself I have no idea. Has anyone here had experience with them? If they are effective, it might make more sense to have multiple kinds of rounds for one or two handguns vs having to have someplace to store a shotgun (fyi I live in a small apt and probably will live in similar places for the forseeable future).

These are called "snake shot". I have some for my .357 magnum (.38 cal) from CCI. They explode beer cans from 15-20ft. I wouldn't use them for defensive rounds against people. Might just piss them off.

[ByronB]

I have a Remington 870 marine magnum, I consider it the ultimate in the shotgun world of home defense...

[Lloyd Danforth]

It would be better  it were shorter and you could hold the trigger down and just pump to fire it like my old Stevens pump.

[KBCraig]

It would be better  it were shorter and you could hold the trigger down and just pump to fire it like my old Stevens pump.

Damn lawyers!

I understand the Norinco copy of the Winchester Model 1897 "trench gun" is like the original: no disconnector, so you can fire it the same way as your Stevens.

[PowerPenguin]

To be proficient with a handgun, especially in SHTF situations, requires lots of range time and the ability to be able to pull the trigger. Anyone can shoot a gun at the range, but when it is dark, and you are faced with the decision to kill someone, it takes a trained person to pull the trigger without questioning yourself. There is no " wound them" in self defense, If you have to pull the gun you have to kill the bad guy. If you don't have enough reason to kill them, you didn't have enough reason to produce a gun.

I highly recommend reading " In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob

I know. I need to take some training courses at some point. I have moderate range experience, but none of this stuff yet. I moved from CA, where guns aren't exactly PC...

[Tom Sawyer]

I have a Remington 870 marine magnum, I consider it the ultimate in the shotgun world of home defense...

That stainless steel looks pretty sweet.

[ByronB]

It would be better  it were shorter and you could hold the trigger down and just pump to fire it like my old Stevens pump.

I'm sure I would have bought something shorter if the ATF had nothing to say about it... I guess I could put a rear pistol grip on it but I like being able to shoulder it to help manage the recoil.

[Moebius Tripp]

I highly recommend reading " In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob

I've read his stuph. Good stuph.  Isn't he a Granite Stater?

[Lloyd Danforth]

While I've never done it the Stevens 520 can be shortened by cutting the barrel in front of the magazine mount and behind the grip and still be legal.  The military used a short barrel version.  When I was a teenager you could buy a surplus barrel for 3 bucks!  I never bought one as it made no sense for hunting.
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http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-323170.html

[KBCraig]

I highly recommend reading " In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob

I've read his stuph. Good stuph.  Isn't he a Granite Stater?

Ayup. Last time I checked, he was a reserve police captain in Grantham.

[Raineyrocks]

Thank you everybody for all of your advice!      I usually go post by post but I'm feeling really dizzy this morning so I just wanted to thank everybody at once.

We're not sure if we're are getting it, the thing I like best is the lack of paperwork but we'll see what happens.  Rick is supposed to check it out this weekend.

It's going to make me more dizzy but + for everybody! 

[Redchrome]

The Glazer "safety shot" is a pellet type round, and IMHO is useless.

you are not going to get any sort of a pattern out of a short barreled gun

The Glaser Safety Slug is not a shot shell. It fragments upon penetration.
"Glaser's composite design uses a special thin-wall jacket, and precision compressed lead shot core with a soft polymer tip. This construction provides optimum balance between penetration and fragmentation."

Some people say glaser-type bullets are unequivocal drop-dead stoppers; some say they're not effective at all. I've read evidence for both sides; and as with all things, it seems to depend on circumstances.

If you can get a firm center-mass hit on the target, and the bullet doesn't have to penetrate far to reach the vitals, they can be tremendously effective.

If you hit something else before reaching the vitals (leather, heavy bone, interposed limb), the bullet will (probably) fragment and the pellets will have no more penetrating power than birdshot (that is to say, only a very few inches, making tiny holes).

Dr. Martin Fackler recommends no less than 12" penetration to be sure of reaching and damaging the vitals. I do not believe many of the glaser-type bullets will achieve this reliably. (It's tough enough with expanding bullets from many pistol cartridges). I have also seen photographic evidence of a deer shot by a hunter with a .308 glaser bullet, and then autopsied by that hunter (I believe he was a wound pathologist professionally), and even though it was a 'perfect' shot, the bullet did not fragment at all.

I am not opposed to glaser-type bullets; but I do think people should be aware of their limitations and possible unreliability.

For some enlightening ballistic gelatin tests:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/
Keep in mind that ballistic gelatin is *not* a perfect simulant of live flesh. Real-world results can vary wildly.

For a really good discussion of terminal ballistics, read these pages (now apparently offline, but still available through archive.org).
http://web.archive.org/web/20031002213431/http://www.mindspring.com/~ulfhere/ballistics/wounding.html

Back to the original topic of whether a given price is good on a particular gun; a quick and rough guide can be found at
http://www.gunsamerica.com/
http://www.gunbroker.com/

[Tom Sawyer]

 
Thanks for the info.

[leetninja]

The ultimate in home defense as far as 12ga goes would be either 00 buck or simply a slug.  If you really wanted to ensure stopping the intruder spring for some sabot slugs - they are absolutely devastating but more for a long rangeish shot i believe. 

[ColdSoul]

I have never fired sabot but from what I have heard be careful about shooting them through some barrels (steel sabot's anyways) if I remember correctly they can damage some barrels. But this is just something I remember off the top of my head.

The main thing to remember is that any self defense weapon is:

1. it is only good if you have it available when you need it

2. it is only good if you can use it in the situation your in (like if you have a Barrett 50 cal it's not going to do you any good when the guy is 10 feet from you, and the Barrett isn't pointed at him/her)

So I think anytime someone picks something for self defense it should be something that they are comfortable keeping around them most of the time and thats not to big to be wielded in a smaller area if possible.

But I have never had to use a weapon in self defense other than my own 2 hands, and hopefully that will never change but thats my opinion, informed or not.