No offense, but that courtroom stunt was dumb

[keith in RI]

i got to wondering what else they could ban if they found it offensive and i remembered here in rhode island you are not allowed to wear shorts to court either. if you show up in shorts they (baliffs) will not allow you in and if you dont go home and change then and come back you are no show for a court date. and some people have to take buses there so it becomes impossible to make it back in time. no hats, no shorts, its all about "respect" for the court. i just dont think the courts have a right to demand respect. most of these rules are usually made up by the head judges not the state.
  in fact this reminds me of another court  "rule" here at the federal court in providence rhode island. i was recently attending the tax trial of a friend of mine which is just getting to trial time now, however, during one of the first pre-trial hearings after his arrest i went to court in support of him and after going through security at the entrance (the entrance is inside a post office and you do have to show identification to get in) i went to take a seat in the court along side my friends daughter. once the hearing got under way she, my friends daughter, started taking several notes regarding future hearing dates and times as well as noting the different peoples names etc. but nothing more then taking general notes about my friends case. just before the hearing ended i noticed the judge passing a note back and forth between himself and the court reporter (stenographer). about 15 seconds after the judge left the room and as we were standing up to leave, the court reporter came  jogging (literally) over to my friends daughter and said "excuse me miss were you taking notes in that notebook?" and she looked at me kind of puzzled and she responded to the reporter "yes i was, why?" now keep in mind my friends daughter isnt exactly a court room regular and has just recently become active in liberty things plus she really didnt want to cause a scene and "make things worse" for her father. but i can tell she was uncomfortable by the question. well the court reporter says to her " well i need to see what you have written in there.... you arent allowed to take notes in court without permission from the court reporters are you media?" and my friends daughter stunned said " no im not media im his daughter" meanwhile this court reporter is tugging at her notebook while repeating the " i need to see what you have written" line. by now my blood is boiling but im keeping quiet because im not really involved and this lady starts flipping through the notebook while saying "what is this?" and " what does this say here i cant read it!"  I SHIT YOU NOT! i watched all this happen with my own eyes!my friends daughter suddenly got embarassed when the lady flipped to a page with a bunch of doodling on it and she said "what is this?" and my friends daughter said "oh this is my daughters notebook its her doodling i just greabbed it before i left" so the lady looks at her and says well next time you cant take notes without permission, or read or talk in court.....   then walks away.......
   i was left STUNNED! then as if that wasnt bad enough as we are exiting the court room i see one of the US MARSHALLS walk over to the court reporter and say something to her. then as we are sitting in the hallway waiting for my friend to get out of a meeting with his court appointed lawyer the marshal comes out of the courtroom and says to my friends daughter "i didnt notice you were taking notes but if i had i would have told you to stop so make sure you dont do it anymore. usually i see people and i let them know they cant but i missed you thats why i didnt say anything" i had had enough and started questioning what law this was? and he said it is a court rule made up by the head judge and we had several more words but i could tell my friends daughter was getting uncomfortable so i just stopped and the guy left but i told her if it had been me they would have never searched my notebook........
    sorry if ive told this story before or if it is rambling, its just that not being able to wear a hat in court is a court "rule" just like not allowing note taking in court (in rhode island anyway). and maybe if more people challenged the stupid "no hat rule" we wouldnt ever have gotten a "no note-taking rule"..... just a thought.....

[Russell Kanning]

Joey has been out of place since before Luke.
I support your plans to work with the Republicans ... maybe  you should hang out with them.

Even though the thugs are wrong ... I don't see any reason to try and appeal to some sort of religious exemption  for a hat that is not important to you.

[Jan]

Even though the thugs are wrong ... I don't see any reason to try and appeal to some sort of religious exemption  for a hat that is not important to you.

Just playing devil's advocate here...but couldn't the same be said about you and some of your "stunts" that landed you in legal trouble? 

I know I come out of nowhere-land to post here occasionally...and the who the hell am I to speak on this topic...but, your and Kat's statements do seem rather hypocritical.  Who's to say what's important to anyone at any time?  And props to AntonLee for his comment.

I know, I know...next you'll tell me this is your forum and you can say what you want and I can go elsewhere if I don't like it.   

BTW, I actually support and applaud what you and Kat have done.  And, I feel the same way about Jesse.  If I had the balls I would have done the exact same thing.  Your comments just seem...well...almost envious/jealous????

I'll STFU now.

[Russell Kanning]

I just would not have done what Jesse did,  but I have done similar and support him against the thugs.

[Free libertarian]

 C'mon people lets put our thinking caps on - Hats off to freedom ! Er something like that.   

[Coconut]

I was unimpressed by what Jesse did.  I felt like he was lying about having quasi-religious reasons for not taking off his hat.  And it's not like he was forced to go into that courtroom if he didn't like their rules.

Of all people, I can't believe this is coming from you.

I have to agree. Based on the fact that Kat's last stay in jail was over holding a sign in a place they asked her to leave. Seems almost identical in the sense that you were both in a public place, out of the way, doing what you wanted to be doing peacefully.

[joeyforpresident]

I'm just giving my view on what I read in the news articles. Maybe you guys know more than I do, but one or two or whomever were put in cuffs because they wouldn't remove their hats.

It's a lot like the Muslim lady in Atlanta who wouldn't remove her head scarf for "religious reasons." The courtroom isn't a mosque, so the judge was right to make her remove it.


Just as a/the judge is right to remove anyone who does not respect the decorum of the courtroom. There doesn't have to be a law to require some folks show some respect to the institution - whether you agree with the institution is not the issue - but there was a posted sign.


I'm still trying to find where the "violence" by the State occurred. Arresting someone for not following courtroom decorum is "violence?" Or was there other violence that wasn't included in the article?


I promise you that if it were my courtroom, you will respect the institution of the court. You don't have to agree with me, and you're not required to do so, but pulling stunts like this only shows how ridiculous this anarchist mentality is. I don't agree with mountains of governmental decisions or politicians, but I won't show blatant disrespect just because I want to cause trouble and attention.


But, again, that's just my view. And if anyone's offended, that's just too bad



And I want to know the next time you guys plan to stage a protest, because if what Jan is saying is correct and that people were arrested simply for holding up a sign, I will be right there with a video camera (and the spy cam) and my bullhorn

[dalebert]

There doesn't have to be a law to require some folks show some respect to the institution - whether you agree with the institution is not the issue - but there was a posted sign.

Oh, there was a sign! OH!!!! So I will post signs all over the place that I am the king of Keene. If I arrest someone for not obeying me, then that's not violence? They caused it, right? Because I put up a sign warning that there would be violence if I was not obeyed. I bet you believe in magic scrolls with spells on them too. If I write stuph on paper, that alters reality, yes? Is that what you're claiming?

Arresting someone for not following courtroom decorum is "violence?"

Arresting someone for anything is violence. There should be no debate over that. The only thing that ought to even be worthy of discussion is whether that violence is justified or not. I contend that arresting someone because they would not obey your order to remove their hat is a spectacularly obscene misuse of violence that is not justified by the fact that they warned you beforehand with a sign. 

I promise you that if it were my courtroom, you will respect the institution of the court. You don't have to agree with me, and you're not required to do so, but pulling stunts like this only shows how ridiculous this anarchist mentality is. I don't agree with mountains of governmental decisions or politicians, but I won't show blatant disrespect just because I want to cause trouble and attention.

I believe it enlightens as to just how ridiculous the statist mentality is. I will proudly show blatant disrespect for violent criminals. I will not be deluded by any man-made mythologies used to justify criminal acts of violence. Joey, you are spectacularly gullible and deluded. You are not prepared to fully deal with reality until you abandon your comforting fantasies and have the courage and maturity to face the real world.

And I want to know the next time you guys plan to stage a protest, because if what Jan is saying is correct and that people were arrested simply for holding up a sign, I will be right there with a video camera (and the spy cam) and my bullhorn

Please do. You'll be saving us a lot of trouble by publicly exposing your own stupidity and showing who's side you're really on.

[joeyforpresident]

Let me be the first to say that you're a lunatic.

So it really just borders on everyone's defintion of "violence."

Look, I have no problem at all with what you guys do, I simply have better ways to show my "disobedience" than pulling stunts that will get me tossed in jail.


I'd much rather work within the system, but I realize I'm going against the grain on that one.

[dalebert]

Let me be the first to say that you're a lunatic.

Coming from you, I take that as a compliment.

So it really just borders on everyone's defintion of "violence."

If you don't see handcuffing someone and throwing them into a cage as violence, then you're a lunatic. Do you have ANY logical or reasonable defense for your absurd positions? You are, after all, trying to convince us to disregard the plain reality right in front of our eyes. Such a position calls for some pretty good evidence.

I'd much rather work within the system collude with the criminals, but I realize I'm going against the grain on that one.

FTFY

[Tom Sawyer]

Hey Joey you do realize they slammed Charlie against a wall for asking a question right?

[BillKauffman]

I was unimpressed by what Jesse did.  I felt like he was lying about having quasi-religious reasons for not taking off his hat.  And it's not like he was forced to go into that courtroom if he didn't like their rules.

Of all people, I can't believe this is coming from you.

I have to agree. Based on the fact that Kat's last stay in jail was over holding a sign in a place they asked her to leave. Seems almost identical in the sense that you were both in a public place, out of the way, doing what you wanted to be doing peacefully.

You can't do "what you want" in a collectively owned building. They have rules about how a collectively owned building is to be used.

[AntonLee]

Hmm, so you love freedom, but not enough to allow someone to wear a hat in thy King's court?  You will attest to your 'disobedience' but you're really not unlike everyone else out there. . . everyone else OUT THERE wants themselves to be free and are willing to give up freedoms in order to stifle the freedom of others.

The man in the black robe deserves no more honor than Joe my garbageman.  In fact, I could make very convincing arguments that Joe's job is much more needed than a Judge's.  Someone, along the way, gave the man a robe, and told him he was most honorable.  They sit and decide on who goes to jail, who pays the king, and who goes free.  

You can go show your 'disobedience' and they'll laugh at you as they've laughed at others.  Everyone pushes for their own freedom, some push for OTHERS' freedom.  You'll be pushing for your own as well, but you'll be pushing against others' freedoms.  If you don't like a hat on some guy's head, then do something about it yourself.  Be there, and physically remove the hat from people's heads.  

I dare ya.  If people manned up and did their own dirty work instead of bitching out and paying some bureaucrat to do it the world would be a lot freeer.  I'd put further, that Joey himself would wuss out at the mere fact that he would have to take care of the 'hat problem' himself.  He might end up getting the brunt of a defensive force and that wouldn't look good on the front page of "JewHampshire"

It's okay Joey, a lot of us were where you're at now.  I hope you can solve all the problems, but try and maybe not trample on other's lives in the process.  Thanks a bunch buddy!

[BillKauffman]

Do you have ANY logical or reasonable defense for your absurd positions?

Why continue beating around the bush? The root of the argument is "social contract theory" leading to a statutory monopoly on force vs. voluntary, free-market, poly-centric system of rules with private defense agencies and insurance.

Everything else is just foolish mental masturbation.

[thinkliberty]

Let me be the first to say that you're a lunatic.

So it really just borders on everyone's defintion of "violence."

It's not violence when the government does it -- that is your definition isn't it, joey.

Look, I have no problem at all with what you guys do, I simply have better ways to show my "disobedience" than pulling stunts that will get me tossed in jail.

I'd much rather work within the system, but I realize I'm going against the grain on that one.

You will love your government no matter what it does. Your government has "freedom fries" and can do no wrong.

Some day you will wake up to realize that "the system" is rigged and there is nothing you can do within it to change it from within.

^^ there is the video evidence