9-11 was an inside job

[Raineyrocks]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer some of my questions but could have done without the sarcastic jabs such as:

You do, assuming you have two brain cells to rub together.

Repeat after me: "GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS."

I though you were nicer than that going from some of your posts. 

Anyways I never said that I believed it was a hologram plane, I said it was something I read about.  I also never said that there wasn't an actual plane crash in the field.   I said ,"the plane that was supposedly taken over by the passengers and crashed in to the field?"  Which brings up the question of, was this plane shot down by missiles or was it taken over by the passengers?

Have you read David Ray Griffins info?  I just did and it's very interesting.  My point is that there are more questions than just about melting steel beams.  I don't know exactly what happened so stop being so defensive. 

[mvpel]

You said "who knows whether or not it was a hologram."  I said, YOU know it.

I find it very hard to be nice when such patent absurdity is flying about, such as the absurdity of questioning the reality of the death of Barbara Olson or Todd Beamer by postulating alien-technology holograms.  I can put up with repeated pointless questions from my three year old, since I know he'll grow out of it, but nearly six years of it from full grown adults gets under my skin.

Did you know that steam and iron will burn at about 400 degrees?  It's called pyrophoric oxidation.  Gypsum in wallboard has a chemical composition of CaSO, about 17.6% sulfur, which would have become a source of sulfur for hydrogen-sulfide-driven pyrophoric oxidation of the steel.

Indeed, by pumping water for weeks into the rubble pile at Ground Zero, the NYFD was probably adding fuel to the fire as the steam reacted with the steel and released hydrogen to either combine with the sulfur in gypsum to burn violently with the steel or to burn with oxygen in the air.

As for United 93 and the missile theory, close your eyes and think about what you would do if you were fighting with knife-wielding people trying to prevent you from unbuckling their harnesses and pulling them out of their seat at the controls taking over the plane.  Think about what they would do.  Think about the tight space between the head and the galley near the cockpit of a typical plane.  Think about the width of the door.  Think about the cramped quarters of the cockpit.  Think about a dead body in that space.  Think about how slippery great gouts of blood are.   And watch "United 93" if you want to see one possible answer to whether the plane crashed or not.  The final instants of that movie are overwhelming.

Plausible?  Yes or no.

[Raineyrocks]

You said "who knows whether or not it was a hologram."  I said, YOU know it.

I find it very hard to be nice when such patent absurdity is flying about, such as the absurdity of questioning the reality of the death of Barbara Olson or Todd Beamer by postulating alien-technology holograms.  I can put up with repeated pointless questions from my three year old, since I know he'll grow out of it, but nearly six years of it from full grown adults gets under my skin.

As for United 93 and the missile theory, close your eyes and think about what you would do if you were fighting with knife-wielding people trying to prevent you from unbuckling their harnesses and pulling them out of their seat at the controls taking over the plane.  Think about what they would do.  Think about the tight space between the head and the galley near the cockpit of a typical plane.  Think about the width of the door.  Think about the cramped quarters of the cockpit.  Think about a dead body in that space.  Think about how slippery great gouts of blood are.   And watch "United 93" if you want to see one possible answer to whether the plane crashed or not.  The final instants of that movie are overwhelming.

Plausible?  Yes or no.

Okay, your right I did say, who knows regarding the hologram.  I meant that in a way that anything is possible but I truly don't think it's probable.  I never said that Barbara Olson or Todd Beamer didn't die and I would never intentionally minimize someone's suffering.  I don't even have to close my eyes and think about the atrocities of 9/11.  I watched it on tv and was crying hysterically when I saw people jumping to their deaths out of the World Trade Center.
United 93 was a movie and I bet it was disturbing to watch that's why I don't want to see it, plausible?  Yes it is but you or I don't know exactly what happened on United 93, is that plausible?

[error]

The United 93 movie wasn't nearly so disturbing as the news footage. Over and over. BTW, I saw what happened to those people after they hit the ground. That's something I'll never forget.

[mvpel]

... but you or I don't know exactly what happened on United 93, is that plausible?

Yes, of course.

But in the field of diagnostics, there's a saying "when you hear hoofbeats, think 'horses,' not 'zebras.'"

And the 9/11 conspiracy theories involve not only zebras, but all too often unicorns, centaurs, and fauns.

[Raineyrocks]

... but you or I don't know exactly what happened on United 93, is that plausible?

Yes, of course.

But in the field of diagnostics, there's a saying "when you hear hoofbeats, think 'horses,' not 'zebras.'"

And the 9/11 conspiracy theories involve not only zebras, but all too often unicorns, centaurs, and fauns.

Your right, that's why I was avoiding the subject of melting steel beams.

[Raineyrocks]

The United 93 movie wasn't nearly so disturbing as the news footage. Over and over. BTW, I saw what happened to those people after they hit the ground. That's something I'll never forget.

I can't even imagine what that would be like, what I saw on tv was something I'll never forget.  Do you know the Alan Jackson song about 9/11?  I cry every time I hear that, it says almost everything that I felt that day and even now.  Were you there when it happened?

[error]

I wasn't there. Was supposed to have been, being a tourist, but decided not to go. (My lizard friends in the NWO called and tipped me off.)

[cyberdoo78]

Here's a link that I got in one of my FFNN letters for all you 9/11 buffs.....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20070512&articleId=5626

[Dreepa]

I still think that the UA 93 flight was shot down... even if everything else turns out to be 'as reported'.... I think that the USAirforce said no way to a 4th flight and took that plane out.

[Raineyrocks]

I wasn't there. Was supposed to have been, being a tourist, but decided not to go. (My lizard friends in the NWO called and tipped me off.)

Aahh, your lizard friends huh?  It's good to know reptiles in low places!

[Caleb]

You said "who knows whether or not it was a hologram."  I said, YOU know it.

I find it very hard to be nice when such patent absurdity is flying about, such as the absurdity of questioning the reality of the death of Barbara Olson or Todd Beamer by postulating alien-technology holograms.  I can put up with repeated pointless questions from my three year old, since I know he'll grow out of it, but nearly six years of it from full grown adults gets under my skin.

Did you know that steam and iron will burn at about 400 degrees?  It's called pyrophoric oxidation.  Gypsum in wallboard has a chemical composition of CaSO, about 17.6% sulfur, which would have become a source of sulfur for hydrogen-sulfide-driven pyrophoric oxidation of the steel.

Indeed, by pumping water for weeks into the rubble pile at Ground Zero, the NYFD was probably adding fuel to the fire as the steam reacted with the steel and released hydrogen to either combine with the sulfur in gypsum to burn violently with the steel or to burn with oxygen in the air.

As for United 93 and the missile theory, close your eyes and think about what you would do if you were fighting with knife-wielding people trying to prevent you from unbuckling their harnesses and pulling them out of their seat at the controls taking over the plane.  Think about what they would do.  Think about the tight space between the head and the galley near the cockpit of a typical plane.  Think about the width of the door.  Think about the cramped quarters of the cockpit.  Think about a dead body in that space.  Think about how slippery great gouts of blood are.   And watch "United 93" if you want to see one possible answer to whether the plane crashed or not.  The final instants of that movie are overwhelming.

Plausible?  Yes or no.

LOL.  You are the king of strawmen, mvpel.  You like to attack the craziest ideas proposed.  I for one believe that "hologram theories" are government disinformation designed to distract from the strong arguments of men like David Ray Griffin.  I have no problem believing that real planes hit real buildings.

What's funny is that by your own admission, the Pentagon plane was flying "fast and low" - the problem seems to be, from my perspective, that none of the pilots on board the plane were qualified to fly a plane in this fashion. I'm curious who the pilot was, aren't you?

[error]

How about the guy who went to learn how to be a pilot, but didn't learn how to land?

[KBCraig]

What's funny is that by your own admission, the Pentagon plane was flying "fast and low" - the problem seems to be, from my perspective, that none of the pilots on board the plane were qualified to fly a plane in this fashion. I'm curious who the pilot was, aren't you?

What is it about your perspective that makes it impossible, or implausible, or even unlikely, that one of the accused hijackers was flying "in this fashion"? Do you believe that fast and low is harder than fast and high?

[Caleb]

Not my words, KB -- this is from the Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true
-------

"Controllers had time to warn the White House that the jet was aimed directly at the president's mansion and was traveling at a gut-wrenching speed -- full throttle.

But just as the plane seemed to be on a suicide mission into the White House, the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level, vanishing from controllers' screens, the sources said.

Less than an hour after two other jets demolished the World Trade Center in Manhattan, Flight 77 carved a hole in the nation's defense headquarters, a hole five stories high and 200 feet wide.

Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm, possibly one of the hijackers. Someone even knew how to turn off the transponder, a move that is considerably less than obvious."

The supposed hijacker, Hani Hanour, could barely fly a Cessna; he was so bad, his flight trainers recommended that he give up his training.... So ... who piloted flight 77?