Tax crusader Irwin Schiff found guilty on all counts

[KBCraig]

INCLUDES- From CFR 26 on 1-1-61

That's not a valid citation. There's no section of 26CFR numbered that way. If you've got a better citation, I'll be glad to comment on it.

'Includes' and 'including' shall not be deemed to exclude things other than those enumerated which are in the same general class."

" ... shall not be deemed to exclude ... "

Meaning, just because they don't enumerate it in the definition, doesn't mean it's not included. But in this case, you're arguing that the states, which are enumerated, are really excluded.

Kevin

[KBCraig]

Kevin when you promised not to engage me in tactical spelling bees I took your word on it.

Actually, what I said was:

I don't ordinarily comment on grammar or spelling (other than Lloyd's comma addiction). I don't mind debating someone whose views differ from mine. But I'll be damned if I'm going to spend more time trying to figure out what the hell you're saying, than you spent typing it.

So, I didn't make the promise you allege. I did violate my standard, since I can't understand your posts without expending more effort than you put into writing them.

When  a person's words match thier deeds that's called "integrity". ???

And making an effort to make your posts readable and understandable is common courtesy. I'm not commenting on your spelling or grammar, merely the intelligibility of what you write.

Try reading what you've written before you hit the "post" button.

Kevin

[Tunga]

Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius. The inclusion of one is the exclusion of another.

[Russell Kanning]

I think tunga just senses an income tax defender ..... I start to sputter when that happens too.

btw ... I totally agree with Tunga.
the government is not big on being held back by the constitution.

[KBCraig]

I think tunga just senses an income tax defender ..... I start to sputter when that happens too.

That would be understandable, but referring to "your precious 16th" after I'd already said I was strongly opposed to the income tax just shows an unwillingness to comprehend.

Here's what it boils down to: if you're going to not pay taxes, then don't pay taxes. Be straight-forward with it, like Russell. Don't work in a job with witholding or reporting. Don't file. Don't send them notice. Don't trot out bizarre meaningless distinctions between resident and citizen and sovereign. Don't zero in on a couple of lines googled out of the tens of thousands of pages of the internal revenue code, and then claim they mean the opposite of what they say. Don't fall for "hidden secret" tax theories written by people who've been convicted multiple times despite knowing "the real truth".

Kevin

[JonM]

posted February 19, 2004 on the world wide web at .pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/interviews/everson.html the text of a televised interview with the Commissioner of the IRS, Mark Everson can be found where he says; "Our whole premise of the tax system is it's a voluntaryself-assessment."

Yes, a voluntary assessment made under the pains and penalties of perjury if you knowingly self-assess incorrectly.

[KBCraig]

posted February 19, 2004 on the world wide web at .pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/interviews/everson.html the text of a televised interview with the Commissioner of the IRS, Mark Everson can be found where he says; ?Our whole premise of the tax system is it's a voluntaryself-assessment.?

Yes, a voluntary assessment made under the pains and penalties of perjury if you knowingly self-assess incorrectly.

You remember the line on the tax form, where it says, "Stop here if you would like the IRS to calculate your tax for you"? Everything after that line is the voluntary part. If you don't volunteer, send in the form and they'll do the rest.

Hey, I didn't say their rules make sense...

Kevin

[Tunga]

I think tunga just senses an income tax defender ..... I start to sputter when that happens too.

That would be understandable, but referring to "your precious 16th" after I'd already said I was strongly opposed to the income tax just shows an unwillingness to comprehend.

Here's what it boils down to: if you're going to not pay taxes, then don't pay taxes. Be straight-forward with it, like Russell. Don't work in a job with witholding or reporting. Don't file. Don't send them notice. Don't trot out bizarre meaningless distinctions between resident and citizen and sovereign. Don't zero in on a couple of lines googled out of the tens of thousands of pages of the internal revenue code, and then claim they mean the opposite of what they say. Don't fall for "hidden secret" tax theories written by people who've been convicted multiple times despite knowing "the real truth".

Kevin

[Tunga]

It is blatantly dishonest to say the income tax is unconstitutional or illegal when everyone knows it is legal.  The constitution is highly flawed and everyone knows it.  Just because you don't like it, that doesn't make it "illegal".  These people just try to use legal technicalities to get out of paying taxes but they fail to communicate the main point that taxation is theft.

If you're going to refuse to pay taxes, at least do it with an honest, righteous purpose, like Russell.

If your aluding to the somewhat "maladusted" or ADD or ADHD and or meaning and including the 14th or 16th Amendments I seriously doubt that "everyone" knows about it.

[Tunga]

I used to think I was cooler than God.
Everyone else a slave.
Now I know it?s all true.

[Tunga]

Thanks Russ et Al. Kevin seems to preach the hoplessness of enslavement with a deftness uncanny.
His position on the so called Patriot Act and its blatent violation of the 4th Amendment is defening  in it's absence.

He appears as a cheerleader and appointed "spirtual communal generalist guided light of the giant movement to "soft" enslavement."

His job depends on it.
His Union master demands it.
He makes no bones about it.
He is not trying in the most desperate terms availible to his mommy schooled edge on lernin to convince us that there is no hope.

Of course, existentially, I have to agree here. Hope is useless. Wishes however are cool.
So, when I wish upon a star and after I have made certain wishes about the most beautiful woman I have ever met, I always wish for the reinstatement of that Document that means and includes the right to pursue Happiness.

I see it as more than just a philosophy. I believe it to be inscribed into law. Written so as to allow even a sixth grade sand flea to understand. Otherwise it would just be so much "tripe".

Or as Bill said to Ted, "Strange things are afoot at the Circle "K"".

[Tunga]

Tunga finds the admission of IRS Commisioner Everson pointed. Since Mr. Shiff made that a key point of his defence from a government hostile to the very Sovereigns' it was created to defend.

That is the definition of injustice. That  is just one of many instances of tryranny perpetrated upon the People.

Of course you've got to be Insane to challenge the NWO.
That's a given.
All of us are surely misguided in some way by the propaganda we absorb.

Let's rise above the propaganda shall we?
Let's treat each other as equals.
The Constitution allows for the impost of duties or tariffs on goods imported to the Union.
It also allows for a communal state of exsistance if, and only if, it is shared equally and equitably among all. For the most part, it free's the several independent and free states of the Union from the troublesome task of import/export duties when trading amongst themselves. A concept that produced the most productive economic expansion the modern world has known.

The one world state is counting on the destruction of the Union to make it's triumph.
Sadly for those lost souls, that case is far from closed.
Dreamers can be extinguished.
Dreams cannot.
peace out.
Tunga

[Kat Kanning]

Anti-tax author banned from selling his advice
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By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer – Wed Oct 22, 10:43 pm ET


LAS VEGAS – A federal judge has permanently barred convicted tax rebel and author Irwin Schiff and a co-defendant from preparing tax returns and marketing products advising people that no law requires Americans to pay federal income taxes.

Federal officials said the permanent injunction by Senior U.S. District Court Judge Lloyd George in Las Vegas ensures that Schiff and his former business partner, Cynthia Neun, "cannot promote tax fraud schemes from within prison or when they are released."

"The Internal Revenue Service and Justice Department have strong civil and criminal enforcement tools available to stop tax defiers who promote fraudulent schemes," Justice Department lawyer Nathan Hochman said in a statement following George's Oct. 14 order. The filing made permanent a restraining order and preliminary injunction first imposed in 2003.

Schiff, 80, and Neun, 55, are serving federal prison sentences after a jury in Las Vegas found them guilty in October 2005 of conspiracy, tax evasion and tax fraud.

Schiff was sentenced to 12 years and seven months by U.S. District Judge Kent Dawson, who branded Schiff and his Las Vegas company, Freedom Books, "a flimflam operation" that encouraged others to engage in a fraudulent tax evasion scheme.

Dawson last month added another 11 months to Schiff's prison term for 15 contempt citations Schiff received while serving as his own lawyer during trial. Schiff has also been ordered to pay more than $4.2 million in restitution.

Michael Nash, a lawyer who represented Schiff at sentencing, said Wednesday that Schiff is no longer his client. Attorney Michael Cristalli, who represented Neun, said he was not involved in the government's move to seek a permanent injunction and could not comment.

Neun is due to be released in 2010 after a five year and eight month sentence.

Schiff wrote several books, including "The Federal Mafia: How the Government Illegally Imposes and Unlawfully Collects Income Taxes," which the government banned from circulation as fraudulent commercial speech.

[Porcupine_in_MA]

Harry Browne actually pointed out where in the IRS code it lists that American's are required to pay the Federal income tax. http://harrybrown.org/articles/InternalRevenueCode.htm

So now that we know there is a law requiring Americans to file and pay the Federal Income Tax, the "show me the law" folk have been left with a choice. Pay the government's income tax because you're a "good" law-abiding citizen. Or realize that taxation in and of itself is immoral and should be stood against, Federal, state, county or town.

[KBCraig]

Harry Browne actually pointed out where in the IRS code it lists that American's are required to pay the Federal income tax. http://harrybrown.org/articles/InternalRevenueCode.htm

So now that we know there is a law requiring Americans to file and pay the Federal Income Tax, the "show me the law" folk have been left with a choice. Pay the government's income tax because you're a "good" law-abiding citizen. Or realize that taxation in and of itself is immoral and should be stood against, Federal, state, county or town.

Thank you. "Show me the law!" has always been either fraudulent, or willful ignorance. No offense to Ed & Elaine or others who have taken that tack, but arguments that "there is no law!" remind me of young-earthers demanding proof of evolution. No matter how overwhelming the evidence, there is no proof sufficient to those who refuse to accept it.

I have a lot of respect for those who reject taxation for moral grounds. I even give a wink to those like Tommy Cryer who have won on technicalities, or Robert Kahre who executed a brilliant end-run on the definition of a "dollar". But those who continue to insist that "there is no law!", despite tens of thousands of pages of internal revenue code and code of federal regulations, just really tire me out. In the end, it really doesn't matter if there is a law requiring individuals to pay income tax, it only matters that the government, and the government's tax collectors, and the government's judges, all agree that you have to pay.

If you cannot morally agree to pay income taxes, and if you can accept the consequences of not paying, than bravo for you! But taxes don't become moral just because someone can point to a written page that says you have to pay.