Any hunters among us?

[dawn]

Speaking of deer hunting, bow season opened 9-15 and closes 12-15. You can buy one license anytime as long as you already have had a previous bow license. If you've never had one, you'll have to wait until next year to take a bow hunter safety class.

Muzzle loader season will open 10/28 and close 11/7.

Regular rifle opens 11/8 - 11/26.

Moose hunting is by permit and lottery which has already been drawn for the year.

Small game hunting starts 10/1 for grouse, pheasant, rabbit.

Addition: Unlike some states, NH allows hunting on Sunday!

(Info thanks to Bill, the hunter)

[KBCraig]

I have no quibble with bow hunting. But, I'm pretty sure I've never before seen anyone advocate bowhunting or spears, as opposed to guns, out of concern for the animals' welfare.

Even a well-placed bow shot results in a relatively slow death, taking several minutes of panicked flight for blood loss to take its toll. That's far better than the death that results from disease, starvation, or predation.

A poor shot is a poor shot, whether by bow or by gun. A poor bow shot results in a far worse result for the animal.

I understand the sportsman/hunter/caretaker descriptions, but I disagree that "sportsmen" are mostly slobs. In my part of the country, there is no "hunting", only "harvesting". Hunters join private hunting clubs. They set in elevated stands, waiting for deer to approach feeders set at 30-100 yards. A missed shot is rare. Most hunting clubs are on leased timberlands of a thousand acres or more. Those enrolled in the game management program (most of them) can take up to a dozen deer, in a very extended season. Such harvest rates are required in the true caretaker role, to keep herds at healthy population levels.

That's not my style. I'd rather still-hunt, without bait, by learning the land and the game trails. But, I don't begrudge those who play a very important part in game management by culling does and spikes. They're meat hunters, not trophy hunters.

Kevin

[mvpel]

That's all well and good until the zoning boards manned by people like Malsem, dripping contempt for hunters and huting, decide to put the hunting clubs out of business by attacking them with noise ordinances, zoning restrictions, and encroaching development.

[Malsem]

Wow.  You guys are so enveloped by the point that you're missing it.

There is no harvesting.  There is no culling.  There is no land control, population control, zoning, overpopulation, encroaching development in Nature. These are all concepts developed by modern humans to try to control something that cannot be controlled.

It's all tied in and very much a part of the system, run by a government that is not directly vested in the welfare of Nature beyond financial venue.  All of these things stem from society.  It is due to human intervention--and plain stupidity--that the populations were nearly eliminated only within the past 200 years are now outweighing carrying capacity of the environment that we keep mucking with.  Kind of like our own population.

Like I said, if you're a hunter/sportsman, you support the government.  You support the destruction of land and wildlife (masked by patches of "preservation-" and "conservation-"labeled cash-cows), and you support a cultural ignorance that treats life as a commodity.  You're claiming in words that the government sucks, but then you're quite willingly supporting it in your actions and philosophy.

KBCraig, if you're thinking that the type of weapon is the determining factor of understanding the deeper levels of taking another's life, then you are not at all understanding the point.  It's kind of like getting something for your mother for her birthday.  You could either have your secretary purchase something and have it delivered; you could go buy a pre-made card and scarf; or you could carve her a beautiful something (or whatever your art may be).

The first is going to the grocery store: disconnected from the act altogether, yet reaping the benefit.  The second is hunting with technology and lack of need for skill or spiritual investment.  The third is investing your spirit, your heart, into the endeavor because you care.

-M

[KBCraig]

 

[citizen_142002]

There aren't any computers in nature either maslem, but I see that you don't have a problem using one, consuming electricity produced primarily through the burning of fossil fuels. FYI humans are part of nature, we are an organism that is native to this ecosystem, how can the actions of a naturally occuring organism using naturally occuring material be "unnatural"? It's just a bunch of semantics.

I personally don't like when people try to justify the pursuit of hunting with things like using every part of the animal. There is no need for a human being to eat meat, just like there is no need to use toilet paper. One hunts because they want to. I personally think it's a mark of self deception when hunters say they don't like to kill animals, and do it out of necessity or a duty to that species. I know I like to shoot little fury animals, if I truley didn't, then I don't think that I would pursue it in my free time. I have no disdain for any animal species, if they are a nuisance to human beings, well they're just being themselves, and if I'm a predator of their's well I'm just being me. I certainly don't hold all life as sacred, humanity is what concerns me, actually I think it is quite "unnatural" for a human being to be deeply concerned about members of another species. Species exist to continue themselves and proliferate, bilogically it is your job to make more people, not save bambi.

People complain about technology making the pursuit too easy. It doesn't matter if you're using a Rifle, Bow, Muzzle Loader, or Spear. There's nothing fair about a tool user pursuing

Honestly I think hunting is a more humane way to obtain meat than the way the stuff in the grocerry store is obtained. Wild game doesn't spend it's life cooped up in a tiny stall or packed in with a few hundred other animals on an asphalt feed lot, a couple inches deep in their own waste. Wild game gets to do its think, reach a mature age frolicking or doing whatever it feels like doing, and then, Thwack, hit by a 180 grain bullet, and a couple days later it's on the table.
There was actually a really good episode of Bullshit that tore apart the animal rights folks.
I might go out for some duck/goose hunting this weekend. I'll remeber this thread when I'm squeezing off rounds from a highly advanced repeating shotgun that gives the fowl very little chance.

And maybe we're missin the point. Maslem is entitled to his/her own views on the relationship of animals to man. He/She is entitled to set rules on his/ her own property, and enforce them. Just remeber that there are some properties where crunchy PETA activists find themselves hanging from trees, for breaking the rules. Happened in Texas I think.

[Malsem]

There aren't any computers in nature either maslem, but I see that you don't have a problem using one, consuming electricity produced primarily through the burning of fossil fuels. FYI humans are part of nature, we are an organism that is native to this ecosystem, how can the actions of a naturally occuring organism using naturally occuring material be "unnatural"? It's just a bunch of semantics.

Yeah, you're the first one ever to say that.     It's the eremark of someone who hasn't thought things through.

Humans are native to Earth.  Ecosystems are relative.  Anything that does not contribute to or compromises the predetermined cycles of nature is not natural.  Don't bother going into that rhetorical blather about using computers and fossil fuels--it's simplistic, naiive, and you're not ready for the feedback that comes with the topic.

I personally don't like when people try to justify the pursuit of hunting with things like using every part of the animal.

Then you certainly don't belong in the woods.  Or anywhere with a weapon.

There is no need for a human being to eat meat, just like there is no need to use toilet paper. One hunts because they want to.

Have you never taken a science class?  Garbage.

I personally think it's a mark of self deception when hunters say they don't like to kill animals, and do it out of necessity or a duty to that species.

I don't know if I agree or disagree.  This is confusing.

I know I like to shoot little fury animals, if I truley didn't, then I don't think that I would pursue it in my free time. I have no disdain for any animal species, if they are a nuisance to human beings, well they're just being themselves, and if I'm a predator of their's well I'm just being me.

Are you actually saying this?  Dude, have you checked for radon?

I certainly don't hold all life as sacred, humanity is what concerns me, actually I think it is quite "unnatural" for a human being to be deeply concerned about members of another species. Species exist to continue themselves and proliferate, bilogically it is your job to make more people, not save bambi.

And this proves my point beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever.  Humans should never fuck with nature.  Thank you.

People complain about technology making the pursuit too easy. It doesn't matter if you're using a Rifle, Bow, Muzzle Loader, or Spear. There's nothing fair about a tool user pursuing

Wow.  We agree on something . . . kinda'.

Honestly I think hunting is a more humane way to obtain meat than the way the stuff in the grocerry store is obtained. Wild game doesn't spend it's life cooped up in a tiny stall or packed in with a few hundred other animals on an asphalt feed lot, a couple inches deep in their own waste. Wild game gets to do its think, reach a mature age frolicking or doing whatever it feels like doing, and then, Thwack, hit by a 180 grain bullet, and a couple days later it's on the table.

Again, I kind of agree with some of it, but all that's really missing from this post is the <<pt-ding!>> of a spitoon in the background.

There was actually a really good episode of Bullshit that tore apart the animal rights folks.
I might go out for some duck/goose hunting this weekend. I'll remeber this thread when I'm squeezing off rounds from a highly advanced repeating shotgun that gives the fowl very little chance.

Can't wait.

And maybe we're missin the point. Maslem is entitled to his/her own views on the relationship of animals to man. He/She is entitled to set rules on his/ her own property, and enforce them. Just remeber that there are some properties where crunchy PETA activists find themselves hanging from trees, for breaking the rules. Happened in Texas I think.

Nah, you ain't missin' no damn dare point, Otis!  Is jus you caint see dat damminall point 'cause ya dun sat on yer goose-gun agin.  Get on up offa dat thing, Ote!  It's all ajammin' up yer mind an' scramblin' yer brain, likin' that time yer sisterbruthacousinuncle was diddlin' with y'all in the clossit at the duck roastin'!  <<pt-ding!>>

[mvpel]

Again, I kind of agree with some of it, but all that's really missing from this post is the <<pt-ding!>>  of a spitoon in the background.

Bigot.

[Recumbent ReCycler]

Malsem, I find your statements very odd and disturbing.  I definitely don't agree with this:

There is no difference between the death of a plant, a fish, a deer, a human.

Also, IIRC, recurve bows and spears are not legal hunting implements.  I don't think of hunting as a sport, rather as a way to get meat and leather/fur.  I have hunted in the past because I like the taste of some types of game and it is usually leaner than what you can buy at the store.  I don't hunt ducks because I don't like the way they taste.  I haven't hunted in a few years because I haven't had enough time and money to do any.  I don't drink alcoholic beverages before or during a hunt, and I don't take a shot unless I am certain that I will hit my intended target.  (I have passed on far more shots than I have taken because I was not confident in the shot.)  I disagree with many of the government's hunting regulations, but I follow them because I don't want to go to jail or lose my firearm.  I would prefer to use a suppressed rifle when hunting in order to protect my hearing, but RSA 207:4 prohibits the use of suppressors for hunting.  I will be more inclined to go hunting again if RSA 207:4 is repealed or if I scrape up enough money to buy a decent crossbow.  I think that a person should use the best tools available to them when hunting in order to get the best shot possible safely.  If you don't want hunters on your land, then post it.  When I eventually get some land,  plan to put signs on the perimeter that say something like "Please contact the owner of this property at ###-#### or id@server.com before entering." and "Caution, entering without permission could be hazardous to your health." because I like my privacy and would like to know when someone else is on my property.  I would not shoot someone for entering my land unless I felt like my family was threatened by them.  I fish in saltwater because I don't have to buy a license to do it legally.

Not how I fish: http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1147174117/Fishing_With_Rocket_Launchers

[KBCraig]

Not how I fish: http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1147174117/Fishing_With_Rocket_Launchers

Hey, that's PatK's theme song for me! 

I'm surprised that the minimum arming distance for an RPG is so short. My Mk.I eyeball says that was less than 20 meters. I sure wouldn't want to shoot a hard target at that range, while standing in the open!

Kevin

[Pat K]

1 rocket for 1 fish seems this was  high level ossifer planning.

[Malsem]

Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant.  It's true.  Prove it wrong or stop jabbering.  You find my thoughts disturbing?  Hey there, pot.

All life is sacred.  But it makes sense that a species who barely made a slight transition into tolerance of skin colors still doesn't see the value of all living things because they "live" in a different way than we do.  If they don't look like us, breathe like us, reproduce like us . . . they must not be as valuable as we are, right?  Who's the bigot?

Your views on treating other living things that provide our very sustenance as commodities and things to be used instead of appreciated and respected; to be controlled instead of nurtured, is wholly sickening and twisted.

Stay out of my woods.  You're nothing more than a carbon copy of the government you claim to disdain.  Hypocrites.

-M

[Malsem]

Here are some tidbits of information to chew on:

Humans no longer exist in an intimate relationship with the natural world.  We no longer find a necessity in investing ourselves as stewards in the processes of the natural environment in order to survive.  There is no ?giving and taking;? only taking. We have eliminated a need to depend upon our senses and grasp of natural relationships by developing technologies that distance us from any spiritual connection with the real world.  Instead of depending upon the skills of understanding the environment and the creatures that live there, we have created agriculture and mass plant and animal augmentation so that our food is overproduced, over-tampered, and neatly packaged.  This eliminates any need to invest ourselves in the transaction of one life for another, and it allows us to have more than we need while we remove ourselves from the roots of existence.  This means we lose our fundamental level of our relative purpose on a personal and cultural perspective.  America is statistically the ?fattest? of the countries, but gluttony and greed are pandemic.

Our senses are now torpid as we have designed our lifestyles to revolve around flattened sidewalks and pavements (pavements, which, by the way, leach about 10 billion gallons of oil into the oceans approximately every eight months), bombarded by advertising, televisions, radios, telephones, and too much synthetic or manufactured stimuli that do not act as a catalyst between ourselves and the natural world that sustains our lives.  Our eyes?our dominant sense--are tunnel-visioned; our ears are stagnant of diffusion because we focus them into mechanical targets and lack the need and ability to utilize them beyond significant stimulation; our noses are all but deadened as we stuff them with perfumes, petroleum wastes, and myriad elements that have no bearing upon the synergy of senses for survival.  In other words, we don?t live in a world in which our senses mean survival.  We have created crutches, in fact, for our sensory deprived, and our physically handicapped.  Coupled with our fear of mortality and our unnatural life extensions, we now have a planet overpopulated with a species that fosters its genetic shortcomings to the point that we are able to breed our weaknesses into our bloodlines and thrive.  This means that we have breached the carrying capacity of a planet we poison, and we are essentially de-evolving, if not mutating.  A study was done that showed how the thumbs of today?s children exhibit a marked increase in dexterity when compared to the dexterity of past generations.  It is suggested that video games have much to do with this mutation.

Because of our gross lack of respect and reverence for the function and provision of the natural world, we have eliminated species from existence and caused damages in the waters, air, and earth that will persist for generations.  This means we have sacrificed our children for our infantile instant gratifications.  We have done more damage to the planet in the past 150 years than has been done over the past 10,000.  We have made our water too toxic to drink freely.  In fact, we are the only non-water-dwelling animal that defecates in its water on purpose.

In our desire to treat nature as a commodity, we have wiped out nearly all original forest from this (and now other) countries.  Through succession and our continued raping of the land, as well as to generate revenue for the government through fishing and gaming, and in our introduction of foreign species via international travels, we have created our own cultural overpopulation of deer, mice, ticks, and mosquitoes, among other bacteria and viruses.  And through lack of truly understanding the ramifications of hunting without being more closely tied to the creatures and the environment, we have tried to replace natural predators?that we have extirpated?without a true understanding of their roles and impacts.  In other words, we know just enough about the environment to be dangerous.  And we have proven it.

Now the unfortunate thing about this is that we teach our children the same mentality.  So it doesn?t matter what kind of government we support or disdain; it doesn?t matter whether we form our own micro-nation under our very own government rule.  As long as we support this spiritual deadening and technological progression, then we are not really solving a crucial issue.

The funny thing is, the more you argue with me, the more you show how tied and invested you are to this government and its propaganda than you would like to admit.  Like I said, you support the government in action and philosophy, while you despise it in words.

By the way, can you think of another organism that spreads rapidly on its host, builds enormous, long term ?growths? on its host, multiplies exponentially, and causes mass, irreparable damage the way that we do?

Cancer.

Alright.  Go ahead.  I?ve cut my Ph.D. teeth on lawyers and military personnel over the past couple of decades with this, and everyone ends up discovering that they can?t argue with nature.  Let?s see how far you want to take it instead of emptying your muddy cup and listening.

-M

[KBCraig]

Stay out of my woods.  You're nothing more than a carbon copy of the government you claim to disdain.  Hypocrites.

Humans no longer exist in an intimate relationship with the natural world.

Unless you're living naked in the woods with no tools other than your own two hands, you're the hypocrite.

And since you disdain land ownership, how are they your woods? You've publicly declared that Bad Things will happen to hunters who enter "your" land. Hypocrite!

[Malsem]

Unless you're living naked in the woods with no tools other than your own two hands, you're the hypocrite.

And since you disdain land ownership, how are they your woods? You've publicly declared that Bad Things will happen to hunters who enter "your" land. Hypocrite!

Wow.  You're some kind of genius, eh?

Why don't you tell me how it's possible to accomplish that idea?  You show me how someone could go off into the woods and live with a family without having to deal with trespassing issues, pollution that you support, idiots with guns chasing down animals, government intervention, i.e.--taking your children away for "not providing them with sufficient means of living," land destruction and development, or paying taxes and still integrating into the system by some fashion?  Go ahead.  You tell me where there's a place that's vast enough, will never be touched or infiltrated by reckless, careless humans or industry of some sort, where the hunting is free, the living conditions are viable, and there is no worry about interference of global pollutants, local impacts, introduced species and pathogens, and the like.

You let me know, genius.

The wilderness is like family to me, as it should be to you, too.  I'm not claiming to own it.  That's what modern society does.  I'm claiming to protect it from destructive ignorance that runs rampant in our species.  Your arguing with that indicates that you really don't give a damn about the welfare of life in the future, including your own progeny.  That's messed up.

And if I did go, I would be doing nothing more than satisfying my own selfish gratification, just like this society does already.  You're asking me to act in a manner that I abhor.  You're asking me to abandon the welfare of not only my own grandchildren, but yours, as well, by disappearing and eliminating a resource available to them so that they can choose, eventually, to shift away from all these political agendas and segregations.  In fact, what I'm getting back here is that your way is the best way, and anyone who doesn't like it can leave.

Sounds an awful lot like some governments I know.

Hypocrite.

-M