Any hunters among us?

[KBCraig]

Unless you're living naked in the woods with no tools other than your own two hands, you're the hypocrite.

And since you disdain land ownership, how are they your woods? You've publicly declared that Bad Things will happen to hunters who enter "your" land. Hypocrite!

Wow.  You're some kind of genius, eh?

Why don't you tell me how it's possible to accomplish that idea?

The burden is on you to show how it's possible, because you're the one advocating it, you moron!

[Malsem]

Nope.  That's not how it works.  I've explained the concept and delivered information.  You challenged it (in an oh-so-logical manner); so now it's up to you to prove it wrong or prove it right.

I get this a lot from late-twenties, precocious, kids--usually college-types--who think they have the world all figured out.  Maybe do some research before you dive too deeply into this arena.

-M

[Dreepa]

I get this a lot from late-twenties, precocious, kids--usually college-types--who think they have the world all figured out. 

I guess that gets Kevin off the hook.

[KBCraig]

I get this a lot from late-twenties, precocious, kids--usually college-types--who think they have the world all figured out. 

I guess that gets Kevin off the hook.

Yeah, I only thought I had the world figured out 20 years ago. Unlike Malsem, I learned better.

[Malsem]

No.  No, you didn't.

And we're obviously not going to get anywhere here.  You seem more interested in stirring up bullshit than approaching this logically.  You are foundering with an inability to prove me wrong or counter my points, and it's obvious that you're skirting the topics now.  Heck, even the lawyers, at least, put up a logical debate--convoluted, of course--but hardly juvenile.

I guess we'll just have to wait 'til you move up here, Kev.  Maybe we'll bump into each other out there somewhere.

-M

[citizen_142002]

You're a real piece of work Malsem.
You seem to think that anyone who disagrees with you lack an education or the ability to think rationally. I think that you New Left snobs are really insecure about how much grey matter you're pack, so you always go on the offensive when anyone dare challenge you're awe inspiring intellect.

You're making the assertion that human society has moved away from nature and rationality, but then you go and reenforce that colloquialism garbage when you try to flame me. Are you embracing society, rejecting, or are you just flipping retarded?

I'll be honest dude, if I met you, I probably wouldn't like you. You already attacked me personally, and shit, I've never even had any other discourse with you.

Never try to tell me how to live my life, or how to think. I don't want your leftist indoctrination. You think that reason and society are on your side because while most people couldn't disagree more with that crap you spew from your empty head, they don't feel like putting up with your ranting. Your like a spoiled child who hasn't ever heard the word 'no'. Go ahead and throw your little temper tantrum, and show just how warm and caring animal lovers are.

Personally I think that militant animal rights activists are an intellectual abhorration, and I'd rather be around a shotgun toting, chaw chewing, mountainman, than another one of you volatile liberal elitists.

[Malsem]

That's quite a mouthful from someone who's not only missing the point, once again, but who's outright claimed to enjoy murder.

It's not about being an animal rights activist.  It's about seeing the big picture and trying to find a way to steer ourselves away from self-destruction.

In the points of information I've supplied, you may very well not like what's provided, but you still haven't proven the information incorrect.  In fact, just taking a good look at our impact on the environment, the wildlife, and each other overall is overwhelming proof that there is a severe problem that doesn't need to extend into the lives of our grandchildren.

So that's the crux of my concern.  It's about the grandchildren and how we treat the earth, the animals, and each other.  If you're thinking I'm selfish or incorrect, you're simply not paying attention.

So I may be an asshole--that's nothing new--but the information is sound, and to fight with me--in spite of how enjoyable it may be--is not doing our progeny or anyone else's any good.

-M

[CNHT]

Again, I kind of agree with some of it, but all that's really missing from this post is the <<pt-ding!>>  of a spitoon in the background.

Bigot.

He's a liberal...and probably a greenie.. let's face it.

[CNHT]

Anyone should always ask permission before stepping across someone's property line.  If you live by the system that supports a division of owned land--which is a ludicrous concept in and of itself anyway--then you would be a hypocrite in not observing the ettiquete of asking permission to pass.

Division of owned land ludicrous?

If you're a "sportsman," and you come onto my property, I probably won't shoot you, but you'll end up either severely injured or hanging upside down in a tree.  I figure, if you're going to call killing animals a sport, even though they don't have guns and don't know the rules, then I'll level the playing ground a bit.

Sounds like you're the one who needs the pt-ding in the background! Perhaps a few banjos too.

However, if you're an actual hunter who makes his own bow, spear, or whatnot, and hunts with skill rather than technology, as well as utilizes every part of the animal for food, clothing, and tools, and you can show me that you can interpret tracks and identify a particular animal at any given time by its footprints, then you may have a slight chance at passing through.  I just don't see it happening.  I only know one guy around here who can do that anyway.

-M

Elitism. Definitely a lefty.

[CNHT]

Hey KB, get your butt up here and I'll take you fishing...

[KBCraig]

Hey KB, get your butt up here and I'll take you fishing...

Can we use poles and hooks, or do we have to "respectfully" grab them out of the water with our teeth, like bears?

[Insurgent]

I'm sorry to see the direction of this thread devolve into pointless name-calling and insults.

[Malsem]

Life is life is life.  It doesn?t matter whether it?s in the form of a beetle, a plant, a fish, a dog, or a human.  Life is a gift to all things, given by Nature.  It is the thing that each creature has in whatever form that is sacred and allows us all to interact.  Each individual life is made to contribute to the whole life of the Earth.

There is no creature of the status in existence that they can determine the worth of any life.  It is not our place to judge or rule, and to do so is to spit in the face of the Creator.  In fact it would be silly to consider any life to be of any less worth than our own, as it is all these "lesser" forms that keep our lives and our world functioning.  Nature would still function without the presence of humans.  In our dream-world, we consider ourselves superior, but in the real world, we are potentially insignificant.

Our species used to exist in a relative harmony with Nature, taking what was needed and then contributing to the perpetuation of the predetermined cycles.  This wasn?t a philosophy or belief system in a superficial way; it was simply insurance for survival of future generations of all things.

Unfortunately, our species began to lose sight of that process as we developed a sense of want, above and beyond need.  Instead of gratefully accepting what we were given for survival from Nature, we began expecting more in order to pit ourselves against the environment; we sought to conquer, and we took more because we taught ourselves that more was better, and it made you a better person to have more.

We have taught ourselves that our purpose is to go to grade-school, then high-school and get a part-time job, then to college, then have a career, then get married, have a house, have children and cars, then have things?lot?s of things, and then retire and die.  This is our fundamental paradigm.  This is our own rut.  It is a schedule of life.  And now we need vacations, distractions, things to keep our minds occupied.  We are no longer free, and we should be outraged.  When we lived closely with Nature, our minds were occupied by the overwhelming life of Nature and our senses were stimulated by the reality of our place in that world.  Now, our senses have numbed as we create a closed-off world that shields us from the reality of the environment.  Now we are bombarded by unnatural sights, sounds, smells, and thought processes that are not found in the real world.  And so our minds have become burdened with stresses, worries, greed, and loneliness to the point that we must provide those distractions, like television, video games, drugs, alcohol, and other perversions.  We don?t do these things because we?re bad; we do them because we?re lost.

Our attitude toward Nature and each other has become disjointed, at best.  We have stereotypes and segregation, political regimes, and religious factions.  All these things are created and based upon evolutionarily watered-down interpretations, and they remove us from the very real connection that all things share no matter what your geography, biology, skin color, or doctrine?the reality of Nature, the reality of life, and fundamental spirit.

That is our true beast.  It is the real tether, that we are no longer living in a predetermined world in which we function for the betterment of all things, as an integral part of the cycle.  Now we are more self-serving and we fear being outcast, ridiculed, and hurt.  We fear one of the most amazing events in our entire lives?another common reality--death.  We fear death to the point that we fight it and curb it and thus we threaten our own species? survival because we have created a world in which we perpetuate our deficiencies and cater to our weaknesses and constantly stress and deplete our gift of resources.

And we?ve insinuated ourselves into places we cannot fit, any more than a fish can suddenly emerge from a lake and live on land.  We have eliminated species and have transferred species without truly understanding their roles.  And we have tried to ?take the places? of some, like the wolves for the deer, but we are not made to fill that role, and we are creating more damage.

As we?ve moved away from our closeness with Nature, we?ve begun treating other life as a commodity; we have made a devastating impact, and we continue to do so.  This is not something unknown as much as it is ignored.

And it all stems from fear because we are lost.  But our children do not need to be lost, too.  They can find that reverence and sense of place again if they are taught.  They do not have to be of sick spirit and contribute to the destruction of things, because they are born wild by right, and they should have the option to revere their birthright of Nature, as we were not provided.  So, it is not our fault as children.  But it becomes our fault when we have the option to learn but ignore it for our own selfish desires.

-M

[Ron Helwig]

It is not our place to judge or rule, and to do so is to spit in the face of the Creator.

That's pretty funny! (i.e. "By my judgement, any judging is wrong!")

[CNHT]

And it's always nice to see a "sportsman" dislocate his ankle when he goes tromping through the woods...

Dislocate his ankle? Do you think animals come before people?