We need more government.

[aries]

I can't quite imagine anarchy ever working for long.

Not without a significant shift in our morality, no, it won't.

I suppose that's why Thoreau said that when we are ready for it, there will be no government.

So, Caleb, do you think it is moral to tell others how to live their lives?

No, what he means (I think), is that people aren't moral enough to NOT take over and start running eachothers lives. Not all people, we are on the cutting edge here, but most people.

[AlanM]

I can't quite imagine anarchy ever working for long.

Not without a significant shift in our morality, no, it won't.

I suppose that's why Thoreau said that when we are ready for it, there will be no government.

So, Caleb, do you think it is moral to tell others how to live their lives?

No, what he means (I think), is that people aren't moral enough to NOT take over and start running eachothers lives. Not all people, we are on the cutting edge here, but most people.

But must we join in the immorality?

[KBCraig]

I can't quite imagine anarchy ever working for long.

Not without a significant shift in our morality, no, it won't.

I suppose that's why Thoreau said that when we are ready for it, there will be no government.

So, Caleb, do you think it is moral to tell others how to live their lives?

No, what he means (I think), is that people aren't moral enough to NOT take over and start running eachothers lives. Not all people, we are on the cutting edge here, but most people.

But must we join in the immorality?

"We" meaning those who don't want to run other people's lives, are not the problem.

Anarchy would work great, so long as anarchists are the vast majority. If the statists are sufficient in number to enforce the laws they pass, then it doesn't matter if the anarchists decline to participate in the process. The process will involve and affect them whether they wish it to, or not.

That's why I find myself on the side of declared and defined minarchy. It's immaterial that we could exist just fine without government, because government will exist whether we want it or not. It's best to set the limits early and strictly.

Kevin

[AlanM]

That's why I find myself on the side of declared and defined minarchy. It's immaterial that we could exist just fine without government, because government will exist whether we want it or not. It's best to set the limits early and strictly.

Kevin

Setting limits didn't work. What is Plan B?

[FrankChodorov]

That's why I find myself on the side of declared and defined minarchy. It's immaterial that we could exist just fine without government, because government will exist whether we want it or not. It's best to set the limits early and strictly.

Kevin

Setting limits didn't work. What is Plan B?

devolution of state power back to the face to face, small "d" participatory democracy, town meeting where citizens act as their own legislator in deliberative body..

[AlanM]

That's why I find myself on the side of declared and defined minarchy. It's immaterial that we could exist just fine without government, because government will exist whether we want it or not. It's best to set the limits early and strictly.

Kevin

Setting limits didn't work. What is Plan B?

devolution of state power back to the face to face, small "d" participatory democracy, town meeting where citizens act as their own legislator in deliberative body..

Where the majority can still tyrannize the minority?

[Kat Kanning]

Alan...you're making me think here.  Nasty business, that.

When I started homeschooling, it was such a change in thinking.  Suddenly, I realized that I was completely responsible for my child's education.  It made me realize how I'd been sliding along, letting preschool care for her, knowing that someone else was there to pick up the slack (only they don't of course).  It's like some watchdog was allowed to sleep when I had the illusion that someone else would care for her.

So what does that have to do with Plan B?   Maybe when we have the illusion that government is there to care for us and has strict limits on it, we let many little watchdogs sleep, where we should be taking responsibility for our own lives.   In how many millions of little ways would we be watching out for our own welfare, better than the government does, if government did not exist, if we didn't have that very dangerous illusion that they're watching out for us?

This is one of those cases where I can't seem to get the I had down on paper sufficiently.

[AlanM]

Good points, Kat.

Those who hold power do not willingly relinquish power.
We cheer the few votes we have won in the Legislature, but how many have we lost?
How many towns increased their budgets and restrictions on freedoms this year?

To think freedom will come without a fight is naive.

[AlanM]

The American Revolution was said to be fought to oppose tyranny. The result? Merely an exchange of tyranny from a King to a Majority.

[AlanM]

It is time to start building a TRUE counter-culture. One that ignores the present power structure whenever possible. One that truly educates our children. One that does not initiate force. One that offers protection to its members. One that creates jobs and business opportunities.

[FrankChodorov]

That's why I find myself on the side of declared and defined minarchy. It's immaterial that we could exist just fine without government, because government will exist whether we want it or not. It's best to set the limits early and strictly.

Kevin

Setting limits didn't work. What is Plan B?

devolution of state power back to the face to face, small "d" participatory democracy, town meeting where citizens act as their own legislator in deliberative body..

Where the majority can still tyrannize the minority?

within a constitutional framework with the ability to amend and a bill of rights.

the problem with mass democracy is that there is no deliberative body inwhich to fight against manipulation and tyranny...

[FrankChodorov]

The American Revolution was said to be fought to oppose tyranny. The result? Merely an exchange of tyranny from a King to a Majority.

which took a serious step in the wrong direction by replacing the articles of confederation...

[AlanM]

The American Revolution was said to be fought to oppose tyranny. The result? Merely an exchange of tyranny from a King to a Majority.

which took a serious step in the wrong direction by replacing the articles of confederation...

Oh my God!!! I didn't think this would ever happen, but I agree with you on that one, Bill. 

[AlanM]

It is time to start building a TRUE counter-culture. One that ignores the present power structure whenever possible. One that truly educates our children. One that does not initiate force. One that offers protection to its members. One that creates jobs and business opportunities.

Positive karma for you!

So who wants to get started?

[FrankChodorov]

It is time to start building a TRUE counter-culture. One that ignores the present power structure whenever possible. One that truly educates our children. One that does not initiate force. One that offers protection to its members. One that creates jobs and business opportunities.

one thing that is lacking is a medium of exchange that ties the counter-culture together and cuts across currency and allows individuals to issue their own currency...the liberty dollar is not going to cut it.

I would suggest the FSP seriously look at and consider

http://ripple.sourceforge.net/cc.html

I have been intouch with the creator and he said it is possible to do a "branded" FSP site for porcupines to use solely...