Shelter

[AlanM]

I'll start this thread.
Shelter is a necessity. What kind? What if there is no power? No gasoline or diesel available for a generator?
Heating with wood could be a necessity. Cooking also. Are you prepared?
An alternative fuel you could create yourself is ethanol. Here is a link to an ethanol still:
http://www.ethanolstill.com/index.html
Perhaps join in with friends or neighbors to produce your own fuel.

[cathleeninnh]

Some construction is more energy efficient, if you have time and money to go that route. Are they still a good option if you are cut off from all power and most outside resources like factory trained repairmen? Does the housing market realisically have any available, or do you really have to do it from scratch? If there isn't enough time to complete a long range project and suddenly resources  and supplies are hard to come by, what kind of construction can be accomplished by regular folk?

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

Below is an article from a 1974 MEN that I found in their archives.   http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1974_May_June/How_To_Run_Your_car_On_Wood



Here is the address to Mother arth News.  If you go to archives, you can go thru each issue.  The first 10 are very informitive.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/

[AlanM]

Below is an article from a 1974 MEN that I found in their archives.   http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1974_May_June/How_To_Run_Your_car_On_Wood

Here is a link to plans and instructions for this: http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/contents.shtml

[Lex]

Shelter is a necessity.

And food, I think the two go together. Your shelter should facilitate growing your own food. Also I think shelter includes more than the room over your head, for example your garden and land/property should be considered part of your shelter.

What kind?

That depends very much on your means (money) and environment (trees, clay, dirt, etc).

ICF
Insulated Concrete Forms is a great option, costs just a slightly bit more than stick built but provides a bullet proof, air tight, super insulated. This is the stuff bunkers are built out of. You would design your house, measure all the walls, send your measurements to an ICF manufacturer, they will give you a quote, you buy the forms and they ship them to you. The forms are basically oversized styrofoam legos that you put together yourself. You can only do 10 feet at a time vertically but as much as you want horizontally. Then after you have your wall built up to 10ft and it's well braced, you order a concrete truck and pour concrete into the styrofoam forms. Once the concrete hardens the styrofoam acts as insulation (you can get it in R20 or R40). Some manufacturers also offer concrete flooring options and roofing.

There are many other manufacturers, I can provide a list if anyone is interested. The forms themselves can get pretty expensive. For an average house look at spending between $5k-$10k on the forms.

Here is a house being built using QuadLock ICF:


Other building options include:

* Stone: you can do slip-form (make a wooden form, place stone inside and fill in back with cement), hybrid slip-form (build house out of stick, use the stick wall as guide) or old-school stone building (without any forms or stick built wall guides..)
* Mud: this ultimately depends on what kind of dirt you have on your property, if you have the right kind of clay/mud you can make your own bricks or just plaster a house together like you would a pot :-) There is a lot of variations and labels for the art of building out of mud/dirt.
* Stick/Wood: this is the easiest to do because a lot of people have experience and you can easly find help. The minus is that wood is getting expensive, it rots and not as sturdy as a concrete/masonry or clay house. Of course with enough wood it is possible to build a very strong and super insulated house.
* Straw/Bale: I don't know much about this method but there is a lot of people doing it.

I'm sure I missed something but if anyone wants me to give a more thurough explanation just ask, i can also provide a lot of books and resources on this topic. I've been researching this stuff for over a year now. I'm in the process of building my house as well, probably going to go with ICF.

What if there is no power?

There is always power (sun, wind, water) you just have to harness it.

No gasoline or diesel available for a generator?

Preferably you don't even need a generator and can get most of your electricity from the sun, wind or water. For transportation nothing beats a horse when you're out of gas :-) They get their fuel from free grass growing your pasture.

Heating with wood could be a necessity.

You should be heating with wood anyways. Heating with wood is superior to all the other alternatives. Granted your house has to be designed and built around a masonry wood stove to be very efficient but it's worth it in the long run.

Cooking also. Are you prepared?

Gas is definitely the best for cooking but wood is an alternative that should be ready to be used as a backup. Although it depends on who you ask, when i was growing up in Ukraine my grandma liked her tiny iron cooking stove that she had outside. She always used it in the summer and preferred it over the gas stove that she had. I guess once you get used to it, it's not that bad.

An alternative fuel you could create yourself is ethanol. Here is a link to an ethanol still:
http://www.ethanolstill.com/index.html
Perhaps join in with friends or neighbors to produce your own fuel.

I think that's more of a luxury than a necessity. Sure it's nice to get around in a car, but do you think it would be safe and prudent to do so when the shit has hit the fan and people seeing you driving in a car may wonder whether you also have other things... like food? Anyways, I'd definitely try making fuel after the collapse but it wouldn't be a priority I don't think.

[AlanM]

I think that's more of a luxury than a necessity. Sure it's nice to get around in a car, but do you think it would be safe and prudent to do so when the shit has hit the fan and people seeing you driving in a car may wonder whether you also have other things... like food? Anyways, I'd definitely try making fuel after the collapse but it wouldn't be a priority I don't think.

Lex, I was thinking fuel for tractors and trucks. Also for a generator for such things as refridgeration.

[Lex]

Lex, I was thinking fuel for tractors and trucks.

Tractor (draft horses):

Also for a generator for such things as refridgeration.

You can generate electricity to power your fridge from solar panels, wind and water turbines. Also we are lucky here because most of the year it's cold, I believe in the last Popular Mechanics there was an article about a guy who built a pantry on the outside of his house, it acted like a fridge. It had all sorts of gadgets built in to make it work like a fridge, used very little to zero power.

And of course, there is always the cellar.

[AlanM]

While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?

[Lex]

While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?

Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.

[AlanM]

While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?

Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.

You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.

[Lex]

While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?

Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.

You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.

Actually, I lived most of my life in some of the biggest cities. I grew up in Kiev, Ukraine, then lived for many years in Chicago, IL, then in Arlington, VA and finally I'm here :-)

When I was in Ukraine I spent summers with different family at summer houses and we did a lot of gardening. Not many of them had animals (because it was too much of hassle to have animals if you are just there for the summer). My experience with goats is from a lady who lived next to our summer house all year round. We always bought milk from her when we were there. My wife is a horse trainer and owns a thuroughbred but once we get a stable built we'll definitely get a draft horse or two and probably another horse for just riding.

Animals aren't hard, the biggest thing is not forgetting to feed them, everything else will work out as long as you are "animal friendly". If you treat them well, feed them and keep them warm in winter, then they'll return the favor... unless you have goats, those are rotten animals, but they do have the best milk :-)

[fourthgeek]

When I get to NH I fully intend to build a cob house. I think cob is the most beautiful (and the cheapest!) building material. Apparently it's pretty good for cold environments also (dirt is a very good insulator). Many hundred-year-old cob homes are still standing. They just need a bit of maintainance from time to time. But you can't beat $00.50 per square foot!

[AlanM]

While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?

Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.

You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.

Actually, I lived most of my life in some of the biggest cities. I grew up in Kiev, Ukraine, then lived for many years in Chicago, IL, then in Arlington, VA and finally I'm here :-)

When I was in Ukraine I spent summers with different family at summer houses and we did a lot of gardening. Not many of them had animals (because it was too much of hassle to have animals if you are just there for the summer). My experience with goats is from a lady who lived next to our summer house all year round. We always bought milk from her when we were there. My wife is a horse trainer and owns a thuroughbred but once we get a stable built we'll definitely get a draft horse or two and probably another horse for just riding.

Animals aren't hard, the biggest thing is not forgetting to feed them, everything else will work out as long as you are "animal friendly". If you treat them well, feed them and keep them warm in winter, then they'll return the favor... unless you have goats, those are rotten animals, but they do have the best milk :-)

Have you had goat meat. A friend of mine who married a woman from the Phillipines says it is the best meat. He loves it.

[AlanM]

What is it made of? It has a stucco finish, but is it mud, or what?

[Lex]

Have you had goat meat. A friend of mine who married a woman from the Phillipines says it is the best meat. He loves it.

I've never had goat meat. It would be interesting to try it though.