illegal drugs,meth

[9thmoon]

You say that like judgement is a bad thing.  Judgement is a good thing.  Without it, where would we be?  Eaten by a bear, run over by a car, victim to a serial rapist or muderer, strung out on meth? 

I respect your and everyone's right to do whatever they want to do to their own bodies.  That's why we're all here, isn't it?  But part of that is respecting people's right to decide not to partake. 

I have seen marijuana ruin the lives of some people I really loved.  People who think it's innocent are fooling themselves. That's my belief, one developed over years of witnessing what this particular drug does to people who used to be brilliant and tactile and alive, people who now sit around on their asses all day saying "Duuuuuude, wouldn't it be cool if we could live on the moon?" to each other and nodding sagely.  Wasting their lives.  That's my experience of this drug.  Nowhere am I saying anyone's obligated to agree. 

Thanks for dinging my karma over something that comes down to respecting others' rights to their own opinions. 

[FTL_Ian]

First off, I didn't ding your karma, anyone can at any time, for any of your posts' content.

Secondly, people ruin their own lives.  Suggesting a flower from a plant ruins people lives is an insult to the individuals you're referring to.  Don't take the onus of control off of them and put it on a plant.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with lazy marijuana smokers.  Perhaps you should just hang around a more quality crowd.  You'd be surprised at all the intelligent DOERS that smoke marijuana.

Also, you never explained why you think marijuana makes people stupid.  I'm quite curious.  Maybe you know something I don't.

[9thmoon]

First off, I didn't ding your karma, anyone can at any time, for any of your posts' content.

Yes, I know how it works.  Sorry for assuming - you're the only person taking offense at my opinion in the last day or two as far as I know.  I'm only participating in one other thread and it's not nearly as contentious.   

Secondly, people ruin their own lives.  Suggesting a flower from a plant ruins people lives is an insult to the individuals you're referring to.  Don't take the onus of control off of them and put it on a plant. 

Semantics, really:  You think I'm saying the plant makes people stupid, and I think I'm saying smoking the plant makes people stupid.  I don't know if you're recognizing that what I am judging on is the choice people make to take the drug.  I think we're saying the same thing..?  I completely give people credit for making their own bad decisions.  While I'm at it, I also judge people for riding without helmets (talk about stupid, but hey, do what you wanna, it's your brain to spread on the asphalt...), sleeping around without using protection, and joining cults.  Believing that people have the right to make their own choices doesn't mean that anyone else has an obligation to approve of all the choices a person can make. 

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience with lazy marijuana smokers.  Perhaps you should just hang around a more quality crowd.  You'd be surprised at all the intelligent DOERS that smoke marijuana.

I obviously don't expect you to have any understanding of my life experiences, nor do I expect you to simply trust me when I say:  No, I wouldn't be surprised.  I know it's prevalent.  I know it takes awhile to make you stupid.  I know I've seen too many smart, passionate, intelligent, articulate people such as yourself lose their passions, lose their ability to think coherently, and eventually, lose everything to drug addiction.  I'm talking about my experiences.

Also, you never explained why you think marijuana makes people stupid.  I'm quite curious.  Maybe you know something I don't.

Smoking anything at all, really, makes people stupid; it kills brain cells.  Maybe it's the lack of oxygen from trying to hold the smoke in the lungs to get more high.  Maybe it's that coating your lungs in whatever eventually limits oxygen intake that way.  Maybe it's something in the chemical compounds.  I'm just speculating, of course, not really answering your question - I'm not a scientist, but I believe the evidence of my eyes.

[FTL_Ian]

How many years of smoking pot does it take to become stupid?

Also, what about people that eat or vaporize pot, do they become stupid too?

If it's the chemical that does you in, how do you explain the fact that our brain has cannabinoid receptors, designed to receive chemicals like THC?

[Fluff and Stuff]

How many years of smoking pot does it take to become stupid?

That is such a stoopid Q of you to ask, I wonder ???  But, really, it doesn't so there is no answer.  Also, yes, I wonder why people even ride motorbikes at all.  I rode one on Sunday and it was scary

[9thmoon]

How many years of smoking pot does it take to become stupid?

Also, what about people that eat or vaporize pot, do they become stupid too?

If it's the chemical that does you in, how do you explain the fact that our brain has cannabinoid receptors, designed to receive chemicals like THC?

I said I'm not a scientist and that I don't know. 

I'm not sure what the problem is, here.  I support legalization and I support your right to put whatever you want to put into your body.  I just don't like what I see when people I know use marijuana.  Simple.  What's the problem?

And my karma keeps going down and down and down... amazing, isn't it?

[Fluff and Stuff]

And my karma keeps going down and down and down... amazing, isn't it?

Well, I am not good at math so I don't know your overall karma, but what do you want your positive karma to be?  I'll do my best, but I only have a few days before I go to Porcfest!

[FTL_Ian]

I said I'm not a scientist and that I don't know. 

I'm not sure what the problem is, here.  I support legalization and I support your right to put whatever you want to put into your body.  I just don't like what I see when people I know use marijuana.  Simple.  What's the problem?

Well, you made some declarations, and I'm just calling you out.  It's clear now you don't have any actual facts, you're just going on your personal experience.  I understand your emotional response, as I've seen my share of dumb potheads too.  I just wanted to point out that your generalizations are unfair and inaccurate.  My friends and I are all counter examples to your belief system.

I've done MDMA (ecstasy) a few times too, I wonder if you'll look down on me for that as well.

[president]

random stuff I jacked from "THE EMPEROR WEARS NO CLOTHES"
if you want to check out the book go here:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=1672.msg74529#msg74529

From 1842 through the 1890s, extremely strong marijuana (then known as cannabis extractums) and hashish extracts, tinctures, and elixirs were routinely the second and third most-used medicines in American for humans (from birth, through childhood, to old age) and in veterinary medicine until the 1920s and longer. (See chapter 6 on ?Medicine,? and chapter 13 on the ?19th Century.?)

For more than 3,500 years, cannabis/hemp/marijuana has been, depending on the culture or nation, either the most used or one of the most widely used plants for medicines. This includes: China, India, the Middle and Near East, Africa, and pre-Roman Catholic Europe (prior to 476 C.E.).

Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, NORML, High Times, and Omni magazine (September 1982) all indicate that, if marijuana were legal it would immediately replace 10-20% of all pharmaceutical prescription medicines (based on research through 1976). And probably, Mechoulam estimates, 40-50% of all medicines, including patent medicines, could contain some extract from the cannabis plant when fully researched.

(Read the U.S. government sponsored research as outlined by Cohen & Stillman, Therapeutic Potential of Marijuana, 1976; Roffman, Roger, Marijuana as Medicine, 1980; Mikuriya, Tod, M.D., Marijuana Medical Papers, 1972; Also, the work of Dr. Normal Zinberg; Dr. Andrew Weil; Dr. Lester Grinspoon; and the U.S. Government?s Presidential Commission reports [Shafer Commission] from 1969 through 1972; Dr. Raphael Mechoulam, Tel Aviv/Jerusalem Univ., 1964-84; W.B. O?Shaugnessy monograph, 1839; and the long-term Jamaican studies I & II, 1968-74; Costa Rican studies through 1982; U.S. Coptic studies, 1981; Ungerlieder; U.S. military studies since the 1950s and ?60s.)

Marijuana was America?s number one analgesic for 60 years before the re-discovery of aspirin around 1900. From 1842 to 1900 cannabis made up half of all medicine sold, with virtually no fear of its high.

The 1839 report on the uses of cannabis by Dr. W.B. O?Shaugnessy, one of the most respected members of the Royal Academy of Science, was just as important to mid-19th Century Western medicine as the discoveries of antibiotics (like penicillin and Terramycin) were to mid-20th Century medicine.

In fact, the Committee on Cannabis Indica for the Ohio State Medical Society concluded that ?High Biblical commentators [scholars]? believe ?that the gall and vinegar, or myrrhed wine, offered to our Saviour immediately before his crucifixion was, in all probability, a preparation of Indian hemp.?

(Transcripts, Ohio State Medical Society 15th annual meeting, June 12-14, 1860, pg. 75-100.)

From 1850 to 1937, the U.S. Pharmacopoeia listed cannabis as the primary medicine for more than 100 separate illnesses or diseases.

During all this time (pre-1000 B.C.E. to 1940s C.E.), researchers, doctors, and drug manufacturers (Eli Lilly, Parke-Davis, Squibb, etc.) had no idea what the active ingredients were in cannabis until Dr. Mechoulam discovered THC in 1964.

the American Medical Association (AMA) and drug companies testified against the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act because cannabis was known to have so much medical potential and had never caused any observable addictions or death by overdose.

The possibility existed, they argued, that once the active ingredients in cannabis (such as THC Delta-9) were isolated and correct dosages established, cannabis could become a miracle drug.



The U.S. Pharmacopoeia indicated cannabis should be used for treating such ailments as: fatigue, fits of coughing, rheumatism, asthma, delirium tremens, migraine headaches, and the cramps and depressions associated with menstruation. (Professor William EmBoden, Professor of Narcotic Botany, California State University, Northridge.)

[9thmoon]

It's clear now you don't have any actual facts, you're just going on your personal experience. 

That is, in fact, exactly what I said.  I never claimed to have scientific evidence.  All along, I've been claiming this as my opinion.

I understand your emotional response, as I've seen my share of dumb potheads too.  I just wanted to point out that your generalizations are unfair and inaccurate.  My friends and I are all counter examples to your belief system.

And I've known too many people who started out every bit as smart and involved as you are before they became "dumb potheads".  I'm once again referring only to my personal experience, here. 

I've done MDMA (ecstasy) a few times too, I wonder if you'll look down on me for that as well.

I've never seen ecstacy ruin anybody's life...

I don't have anything against you personally, Ian.  I don't know you very well, but I enjoy your posts and I respect the work you're doing.  You don't know me from Adam.  Why is it such a problem for you that one chick in Seattle disapproves of pot smoking? 

[FTL_Ian]

I just have to rebut when such a useful plant is under fire, that's all.

[Dreepa]

She is just stating her personal opinion.  I never heard her call to ban it.  Just that she doesn't want to hang around it.... isn't that what freedom is all about?

[FTL_Ian]

She is just stating her personal opinion.  I never heard her call to ban it.  Just that she doesn't want to hang around it.... isn't that what freedom is all about?

No one has suggested that she called to ban it.  We're just defending the fact that marijuana is a plant, and pointing out that there are a wide variety of people who consume it.  She was painting us all with a broad brush, and then she was promulgating myths like "Marijuana causes brain damage!".

I cannot stand by as an innocent plant's name is sullied.

I highly recommend "Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts".  It's a great book that will blow away all the government lies about marijuana.  You can order it at http://amazon.freetalklive.com .

[9thmoon]

I didn't say brain damage.  We didn't talk about government propaganda.  We already established that we were talking about my personal life experiences and the beliefs I've come to hold as a result of them.  And what the heck?  Another ding!  I haven't even risen to the bait in this thread, I let it lie.  I can understand being irritated at being "painted with a broad brush", but x10?   

[Dreepa]

I guess people are 'sensitive' when it comes to pot.

I know some people who smoke every day and are functioning adults.
I know a few people who smoke every day and are... stoners.

It seems that 9th has met all the stoners in her personal experience.  There is no need to 'set the record straight' or defend a plant.