Rescinding membership in Free State Project

[Shawn]

The more I hang out on these forums the more I feel like the FSP is hopeless.  As soon as anyone has the slightest disagreement it's "get out we don't need you anyway", I think we need all the people we can get for this movement.  I want this project to work, but I don't think it will if we spend all day bashing a guy because we don't agree with or understand his philosophy, or if we spend all day shoving our philosophies down other peoples throats.  Why don't we worry about making this into a state were we can go outside without fear of getting tased by a fascist and then we can spend some time worrying about the details of philosophy or religion.  There is too much "I hate Christianity" or "I hate objectivists" or "I hate libertarians" or whatever you might hate.  Reading these forums gives me a very unwelcoming feel, I find myself thinking that maybe I shouldn't go to the next meeting, if people dislike my ideas so much.  I have been in the FSP for a while now, long enough to see who is doing what and for a long time I was looking up to the Kat and Russle quite a bit.  They have done a lot for the FSP and really are heroes in the making, but even they can get in your face and make you feel unwelcome.  I feel like people really need to get their shit together and stop pushing others away.  I should also mention that this doesn't really seem as bad at the meetings or the events, but if someone is considering a move to NH and their first impression of the FSP is the cold shoulder from this forum I think it will be a lot harder for them to make that move.  Just my thoughts.   

[Ruger Mason]

Shawn -- some facts:

1.  This forum does not represent the FSP or its members.  It is the same 10 or so regulars posting over and over again.  Plenty of early movers don't even visit this forum.
2.  People on forums often feel they have license to be assholes.  Those people that come across as assholes online often turn out to be nice people in person.  For some reason, the facelessness and anonymity of the internet has a decivilizing effect on people.
3.  Some of the people who post endlessly on this web forum turn out to be doing little else.  They're dead weight, and they really SHOULD be ignored.

My advice is to ditch the forum.  It is a truly a waste of time.  Instead, get involved in your local community and ignore the endless debate and wining that is par for the course in most online forums.

[d_goddard]

Plenty of early movers don't even visit this forum.

Very true. This forum has a well-earned reputation for being populated with certain posters who are unhelpful in every possible way. As such, many early-movers posted a little and then decided never to come here again; many more heard by word of mouth and so decided never to post here in the first place; others post very infrequently.

That said...

My advice is to ditch the forum.  It is a truly a waste of time.  Instead, get involved in your local community and ignore the endless debate and wining that is par for the course in most online forums.

DO get involved with your local community, most importantly by volunteering for something... anything!
Volunteer to read to old folks or young kids, to care for animals at the shelter, to shelve books for the library, you name it.

But do check back here from time to time. At least keep an eye on the Calendar and/or the NH Liberty Calendar:
http://nhlibertycalendar.com

Lastly, of course, join the NHLA and get active with us! The legislative session is starting soon and there is more work than you can shake a stick at!
http://nhliberty.org/join

[Tom Sawyer]

My advice is to ditch the forum.  It is a truly a waste of time.

Why are you wasting your time here? Perhaps because this is the place to get the info of what is happening.

Right now I'm taking a lunch break from helping build a porcupines house... hardly wasting time.

Sometimes there is too much arguing and not enough action... but if you want to keep informed on what is going on, this is the place to be.

Shawn... if you want to be part of the revolution jump right in and fill whatever gap you can. Or put your faith in some of the top down organized groups that want your money and will pretend like they are going to save you. We have to save ourselves...

[error]

I haven't for a moment felt unwelcome here. Quite the opposite, in fact!

[Russell Kanning]

this forum is pretty much a free for all .... so you might have to wade through some stuff. Since the fsp website doesn't cover every base also, Shawn you could make your own online system to get out info or help us with this one. We have a wiki that is open to changes and you can post what you want on this forum. I might disagree with you, but don't let that worry you. Sometimes our trolls are in charge .... and sometimes they get the smackdown.

[d_goddard]

or help us with this one.

... that being the option I've chosen.
Partly because of Metcalfe's Law (google for it)
But mostly because I am just lazy sometimes

[KBCraig]

The more I hang out on these forums the more I feel like the FSP is hopeless.  As soon as anyone has the slightest disagreement it's "get out we don't need you anyway", I think we need all the people we can get for this movement.  I want this project to work, but I don't think it will if we spend all day bashing a guy because we don't agree with or understand his philosophy, or if we spend all day shoving our philosophies down other peoples throats.

Nothing gets done on forums, other than spreading some information. The actual work takes place off the forums, where people meet face to face. That's why I can't wait to get there and get involved in person.

Kevin

[Rocketman]

The more I hang out on these forums the more I feel like the FSP is hopeless.  As soon as anyone has the slightest disagreement it's "get out we don't need you anyway", I think we need all the people we can get for this movement.  I want this project to work, but I don't think it will if we spend all day bashing a guy because we don't agree with or understand his philosophy, or if we spend all day shoving our philosophies down other peoples throats.

Nothing gets done on forums, other than spreading some information. The actual work takes place off the forums, where people meet face to face. That's why I can't wait to get there and get involved in person.

Kevin

Some forum people are serious doers who use the forum for informational purposes.
Some are serious doers who need a break from all the doing and use it to blow off steam or joke around.
Some are all talk, no damn action.
And some are first-rate ass-kickers who unfortunately happen to be stuck in Texas or somewhere.   

One thing is certain -- the impression of NH freedom activity one gets from reading forums is grossly misleading in a number of ways.

[Sweet Mercury]

this forum is pretty much a free for all .... so you might have to wade through some stuff. Since the fsp website doesn't cover every base also, Shawn you could make your own online system to get out info or help us with this one. We have a wiki that is open to changes and you can post what you want on this forum. I might disagree with you, but don't let that worry you. Sometimes our trolls are in charge .... and sometimes they get the smackdown.

Well, the type of freedom to which we all aspire is generally "chaotic" at least in terms of ideology and discussion on the matter. Online forums, being a place where only discussion can happen, will amplify this level of chaos. I'm new to these forums and to the movement, but I think it's safe to say that people who want freedom accept that it's an "animating challenge," even of the mind. My freedom to hold and profess ideas comes along with it the freedom of others to point out exactly what they think is wrong with my ideas. It's nice when such discourse happens politely, but politeness isn't gauranteed. I would posit that anyone who feels the need to "take their ball and go home" when their ideology is challenged or when a debate gets a little heated, really only wants a very childish version of "freedom"—that is, the "freedom" to to say and do whatever they want without consequence, and for those who surround them to nod their heads in aquiescence.

It's not really a matter of saying "Yeah? Well good riddance!!" when such people leave, but of recognizing that they probably never had what it takes in the first place.

[d_goddard]

It's not really a matter of saying "Yeah? Well good riddance!!" when such people leave, but of recognizing that they probably never had what it takes in the first place.

BINGO!

[Tom Sawyer]

B 15 

BINGO!

[Ruger Mason]

Why are you wasting your time here? Perhaps because this is the place to get the info of what is happening.

I was mostly encouraging Shawn to avoid the endless debate and wining that makes up the vast majority of the content of this forum.  Yes, it is a useful place to get information, but it is not the only place.

[error]

Why are you wasting your time here? Perhaps because this is the place to get the info of what is happening.

I was mostly encouraging Shawn to avoid the endless debate and wining that makes up the vast majority of the content of this forum.  Yes, it is a useful place to get information, but it is not the only place.

Well, you could get it from Homeland Security's database, but not all of us have access to that!

[Jason Rand]

I must be the only laid back Objectivist there is, that's probably due to that one time I smoked some pot, but who knows.

Ultimately, Objectivism is most misrepresented by its so-called adherents in the sense that they cannot accept that it's always up for debate, otherwise it couldn't be deemed an empirically, and rationally, derived philosophy. What I can't understand though, as an Objectivist, why the hang up on A is A [A = A] and other crap? Sure it's a cute short hand for A cannot be A and Non-A [Law of non-contradiction], A implies its own existence, and causality of related to A implies existence of non-A entities. Beyond that, A = A is just a chant for the weak minded wannabes that probably would turn Objectivism into the new Fubu or whatever.

-- Bridget 

Bridget, perhaps you feel like the only laid back objectivist because the really laid back ones don't feel compelled to argue that point?  

The law of non-contradiction (which Rand formulated as A = A) is important within Objectivism because she identified it as axiomatic (in her sense).  In other words, she argued that A=A is a fundamental and irrefutable fact, and provides a logical starting point (along with two other axioms) for her philosophy.  An axiom is different from other propositions or claims of fact in that any attempt to refute an axiom must implicitly accept it (since every proof presupposes the law of non-contradiction).  I think this is an important observation, but I agree that "A=A" can be tiring when overused.