Iran: the Most Dangerous Nation, by TED KOPPEL

[mvpel]

Finally, Democracy isn't for everyone. Many places just aren't ready for that kind of political system.

Wow, what an astoundingly bigoted thing to say.  "Poor dumb heathens, can't run their own lives."  And you get upset at Objectivist?

The reason many places may look like they "just aren't ready" is that the people who want to live in peace and freedom are under the boot heel of real-life thugocracies (as opposed to the imaginary thugocracy that many fancy exists here in the US) and the majority of people either can't do anything meaningful while under a boot heel to get the boot off their necks, or have their own set of shiny boots on the throats of the next people down the list.

This is why it took the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and the killing or capture of many, many thugs to clear the way for a consent-based government to even have the possibility of taking root there.

http://politicscentral.com/2006/11/18/ledeen_on_the_kamalfar_video.php

Iranian dissident Zahra Kamalfar has been living with her children under unspeakable conditions in the transit area of Moscow?s Sheremetyevo Airport for 73 days. A one-time demonstrator against the extremist theocracy with a lengthy prison sentence, she escaped from an Iranian prison when on a two-day furlough to visit her children.

This video documents an all-too common tragedy: Iranian opponents of the regime wandering the world in search of a country willing to let them live in safety. In many ways, it is reminiscent of the plight of the European Jews during the Nazi period. Then, too, refugees knocked on the doors of many nations, often ending back in the Reich.

Zahra Kamalfar participated in demonstrations six years ago. She and her husband were jailed in 2004, in her case for 8 months. Released for a two-day furlough so she could see her two children (Ana and Davood), she and the kids escaped to Turkey with forged Bulgarian passports (her own was held by the regime).

...
Ms Kamalfar is guilty of being an Iranian who wants to live in a free country. That is a felony in Ali Khamenei?s Iran, and a matter of considerable indifference to the ?international community,? which neither helps people like her once they escape, nor the tens of millions of Iranians inside the country, even though their demands for freedom should be embraced and supported by all civilized countries and their peoples.

Is anyone here at NHFREE listening??  Are we a civilized people, or are we not?

Ear, wake me up when people are struggling to escape the United States, instead of struggling to enter it, and then we'll talk about what nation really needs "regime change."

[Ron Helwig]

Please remember that in a democracy, there are no innocents. Everyone in a democracy is responsible for the actions of their government.

Democracy is not a good thing.

[mvpel]

That old pedantry again?  You know what they mean, why pretend that you don't?

[anthonybpugh]

Please remember that in a democracy, there are no innocents. Everyone in a democracy is responsible for the actions of their government.

Democracy is not a good thing.

I'm innocent.  I have no responsibility for the actions of my government. 

[error]

Then quit calling it "your" government.

[Rocketman]

It's like saying "my teacher," or "my warden," or "my parole officer."  "My government" does not imply ownership, although it should; the government is supposed to be of, for, and by the people, but it clearly isn't."

[Lloyd Danforth]

'Of, by, and, for professional politicians and others who want powers that no one should have and wealth  they have not earned.

[Objectivist]

So, did anyone watch The Most Dangerous Nation?

[citizen_142002]

I watched it. I guess you missed the part where many of the people said that they liked America and even George Bush. Did you notice that Ayotolla who said that suicide bombers go to hell, not heaven.

I think you missed a major theme of the show Objectivist. The idea was that both nations distrusted each other, and that we have both back groups to attack each other by proxy.

The whole conflict stems from the fact that we backed their dictator in 1953. Do you think that maybe we should apologize for backing a puppet dictator over the people of Iran?

If Iran attacks us, or commits some other act of war, then sure fire up the tanks. You don't hit first, or else you're the bad guy. The fact that you support the idea of "preemptive" war, reflects badly on all Americans. You are surprised that other nations take offense, just because we threaten to invade them and put in place a government agreeable to us. Jeeze, I wonder why they find that to be so over the top.

The people of Iran don't deserve regime change unless they make it happen. Revolutions come from within, not without. You can't force the ideals of liberty on someone. Frankly, there are people in this world who aren't ready for liberty. By and large, I think that the people of the United States don't desire liberty these days. The rhetoric sounds nice, but we are some of the most heavily taxed people in the world and to say that our social freedoms are in good shape, is a joke by first world standards.

If you want to fight Iran, Objectivist, then polish up your weapon, strap on some body armor, and get moving. Seriously, I don't have a problem with people engaging regimes as partisans, but you're saying that all of us should be commited to a war. Hemingway did it, but I guess it is hard to find men of conviction these days. I say trade with all, entangling alliances with none. If we had followed that credo, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

[anthonybpugh]

I wonder if it has ever occurred to anyone in the government that if they actually began to engage Iran with diplomacy in good faith, that the relationship with that country would improve rapidly.  The same could be said with Cuba and half the countries out there. 

[mvpel]

If we had followed that credo, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

And if wishes were horses beggers might ride, and if ifs and ands were pots and pans there'd be no work for tinkers.

[SeanSchade]

Finally, Democracy isn't for everyone. Many places just aren't ready for that kind of political system.

Wow, what an astoundingly bigoted thing to say.  "Poor dumb heathens, can't run their own lives."  And you get upset at Objectivist?

mvpel,

You should take a moment before responding. Saying many places are not ready for that kind of political system is not the same as saying "Poor, dumb heathens, can't run their own lives."

Also, where have I expressed any anger towards Objectivist? I may not agree with everything he says, but I haven't been "upset" with him.

Instead of reading into things how about just concentrating on reading them?

Finally, it's astoundingly naive of you to believe that you can just plug a republican democracy into any nation and it will work. 

[Brock]

I wonder if it has ever occurred to anyone in the government that if they actually began to engage Iran with diplomacy in good faith, that the relationship with that country would improve rapidly.  The same could be said with Cuba and half the countries out there. 

USAToday reported that the Pentagon was seeking $125B - $160B in additional appropriations for the Iraq war.  If you combine what's left over from what congress has already appropriated with $160B, you end up with the exact cost of dropping a Consumer Goods Bomb on every household in Iraq (less the car and one bedroom set) plus a 10% contingency!

The Consumer Goods Bomb could preempt any war with Iran (and North Korea) and open new markets for the US.  All it takes is the courage to accept that sanctions and bombs don't work and the market does!

[eques]

To be fair, I'm not ready for a democracy in which the majority is going to tell me how to run my life.

But we don't have democracies like that, because that's not what "democracy" means in common parlance.

[Edit] - what I meant is that we don't have direct democracies in which the majority makes it a point to tell me individually what I can and can't do.  Instead, we select a handful among an elite group of tuberbrains to tell us what to do.

[SeanSchade]

USAToday reported that the Pentagon was seeking $125B - $160B in additional appropriations for the Iraq war.  If you combine what's left over from what congress has already appropriated with $160B, you end up with the exact cost of dropping a Consumer Goods Bomb on every household in Iraq (less the car and one bedroom set) plus a 10% contingency!

The Consumer Goods Bomb could preempt any war with Iran (and North Korea) and open new markets for the US.  All it takes is the courage to accept that sanctions and bombs don't work and the market does!

Thanks Brock, that was very entertaining to read! It makes you wonder though...