Ask an Atheist

[MaineShark]

Common belief:  Objectivists are atheists because we enjoy judging for ourselves and find logic valuable.  Faith asks that you turn off your critical mind and we really cant part with ours.  We say humans need our minds to live and consider it destroying the only self we have if we abandon our own judgment.

How is it logical to decide, based on faith alone, that there is no god?  You can't possibly know that.  The statement "no deity of any sort exists, anywhere" is not logical.

Taking that on faith is no more rational than when a theist declares without evidence that there is a god.

A truly rational person must always be agnostic about anything he has no knowledge of.

Joe

[Jim Johnson]

Common belief:  Objectivists are atheists because we enjoy judging for ourselves and find logic valuable.  Faith asks that you turn off your critical mind and we really cant part with ours.  We say humans need our minds to live and consider it destroying the only self we have if we abandon our own judgment.

How is it logical to decide, based on faith alone, that there is no god?  You can't possibly know that.  The statement "no deity of any sort exists, anywhere" is not logical.

Taking that on faith is no more rational than when a theist declares without evidence that there is a god.

A truly rational person must always be agnostic about anything he has no knowledge of.

Joe

Logic is not based on faith, either there is evidence of something or there is not evidence of something.  One can not say there is no God, only that there is no evidence of God.  The statement that, "There is no evidence of any deity shown anywhere.", is logical.  To say that one must always be open minded and to accept changes in fact, does not automatically throw one into the agnostic sect.  A rational person will always start with a premise that is a concrete reality.  Then build from that reality adding more things that are real.  When someone declares without evidence that, "There is a God.", "Satan is Good.", "The Man Boy Love Society is Holy.", "Angles are watching over us." or "To hate, is to love God's hate for us." his statements should be considered ridiculous nonsense, unless there is a concrete connection to realty.  If one could just add any "I feel" or "I believe" to a statement and make it true, then anything would be possible.  But the truth is, is when someone says, "I feel" or "I believe", they are saying, "I do not have the evidence I need to make a valid decision.  So based on the evidence I have , what little that may be, I am making this decision."

That people live their lives in this way does not bother me.  That they become violent when other people do not come to their same decision, based on what little evidence they have, does.  

[Pat K]

I feel that I believe in Ninja Cats.

[Lloyd Danforth]

You just want to believe in Ninja Cats

[Braddogg]

Common belief:  Objectivists are atheists because we enjoy judging for ourselves and find logic valuable.  Faith asks that you turn off your critical mind and we really cant part with ours.  We say humans need our minds to live and consider it destroying the only self we have if we abandon our own judgment.

How is it logical to decide, based on faith alone, that there is no god?  You can't possibly know that.  The statement "no deity of any sort exists, anywhere" is not logical.

Omnipotence and omniscience are contradictory.  They violate logic (I'm not sure if you agree with this, and my asserting it certainly doesn't prove it, but assume it is true and if you want I can defend it later).  Logic is derived from how things are in reality.  Therefore, a God both omnipotent and omniscient does not exist in reality.  More broadly, if it can be found that the theistic God is contrary to logic, then can we say it does not exist?  Or, can we at least say that the theistic God does not exist or interact within any bit of the universe subject to the rules of reality?  Because if someone wants to say that God exists in the 10th dimension eating ambrosia and watching some sort of Jerry Springer all day, then I'm not going to waste my time arguing with them because that is truly something about which I have no knowledge.  But to the extent to which God is said to interact or exist within THIS dimension and on THIS earth, he must be subject to the rules of logic.  And that which does not conform to logic or sensual evidence does not exist.

[TackleTheWorld]

How is it logical to decide, based on faith alone, that there is no god?  You can't possibly know that.  The statement "no deity of any sort exists, anywhere" is not logical.

Taking that on faith is no more rational than when a theist declares without evidence that there is a god.

A truly rational person must always be agnostic about anything he has no knowledge of.

Joe

Your point has validity, Joe

But it has to do more with certainty than atheism.
So I'm starting a new topic:  Ask an objectivist

[sandm000]

If there is such a thing as gods, then I believe that we ordinary human folk are the gods.  We create life, and we have the ability to save lives by healing people.  Huh?  Sounds like a GOD to me!!!!!  Interesting how people get caught up in religious bullshit. Anyway, it's a crazy world that is happening all around us 24/7 . A commitment to the truth is ultimately how I am raising my children,  three lives that I am responsible for bringing into this world.   I am interested in this planet, and the progress of mankind. I believe that there are too many religious politicians pulling this country in too many directions, forcing us to balance out the political chaos. Everyone is interested in self interest!  Kinda sucks for the rest of us who are just trying to make sense of this world we were born into.  A little FYI, I grew up Catholic, and as an adult I took several workshops for bible study.  The only way to make decisions for yourself is to empower yourself with knowledge.  Good luck to all of you.  Live Free or Die.

Homotheism?  I like it.  Man can do wonderous things with technology, almost magical. We know a whole hell of a lot,we are very powerful, we are just about everywhere on the planet

I think that makes us more powerful than the greek and roman gods/but not necessarily any more clever.

[TackleTheWorld]

If there is such a thing as gods, then I believe that we ordinary human folk are the gods.  We create life, and we have the ability to save lives by healing people.  Huh?  Sounds like a GOD to me!!!!!

Homotheism?  I like it.  Man can do wonderous things with technology, almost magical. We know a whole hell of a lot,we are very powerful, we are just about everywhere on the planet

I agree.  Furthermore, when people describe god or santa as - seeing everything you do, and being the supreme judge - they are describing a real entity, themself.  They themselves oversee all their actions and decide if they are good or bad.

[dalebert]

I think I have the same problem with atheism that I have with fundamentalism. It seems to describe people who think they know everything or who have a compulsion to have all the complications and mysteries of our universe discovered and all questions resolved. I think that's a very dangerous place to be.

This thread doesn't seem to have a clear enough question to debate. If you ask me if I believe that God exists, I can only answer that question if you can clearly describe what you mean by the term. A fundamentalist Christian or Muslim can tell me in very clear terms what he believes God is, (ridiculous, yes, but clear) and I can confidently answer "No, I don't believe in God". The evidence just isn't there, not to mention some logical contradictions within the belief system.

I think the evolution debate suffers from the same vaguery. I don't think we fully understand how evolution works. I think we have some very good theories about it that were reached in a rational way and with good evidence, but there are parts that we still don't seem to understand. Problem is the evolutionists feel they have to argue from the basis that all the questions are answered or it won't be strong enough to stand against the faith of creationists, who also have a compulsion to feel they fully understand the nature of life. Some people came up with a theory of Intelligent Design and the creationists latched onto it to argue against Natural Selection and push Creationism. Very few people seem willing to conclude that we just don't fully understand everything about everything yet. Until the Creationists tainted it, Intelligent Design was an interesting theory that didn't rely upon the belief in a supreme being. I don't confidently believe in Intelligent Design but when I disagreed with a friend who said you had to be an idiot to believe in it, he immediately assumed I was a creationist. I'm not, but so many people can only see it that black and white.

[cathypeschke]

If there is a God, is there not only one God?  If there is only one God, should there not be only one true religion?   If so which religion is correct?  All religions can not be right.  But all religions can be wrong.   I do not know if there is or is not a God but I would think that he would prefer that we love and honor those around us than spend our time praising him.  An omnipotent being in my book does not to be worshiped and praised, as they already know their own worth.   I just do not see God as being narcissistic and needy.  If there is a God he will reward those that need to be rewarded.   

Now a little less serious answer. If there were a God I do not think their would be teachers, liberals, taxes or child molesters just to name a few.    At least that is the way the world would be if I were God.

[dalebert]

If there were a God I do not think their would be teachers, liberals, taxes or child molesters just to name a few.    At least that is the way the world would be if I were God.

If you ever run for the office, you have my vote.

[MaineShark]

A rational person will always start with a premise that is a concrete reality.

"There is no god" is not a reality-grounded premise, as it presupposes unknowble knowledge.

Omnipotence and omniscience are contradictory.  They violate logic (I'm not sure if you agree with this, and my asserting it certainly doesn't prove it, but assume it is true and if you want I can defend it later).

Yes, please do.  This should be interesting.

More broadly, if it can be found that the theistic God is contrary to logic, then can we say it does not exist?  Or, can we at least say that the theistic God does not exist or interact within any bit of the universe subject to the rules of reality?

You could subject any particular religion's deity/deities to that examination.  But there is no singular deity that all religions believe in.

If there is a God, is there not only one God?

Why would you imagine that to be the case?  Monotheism is a modern concept.

Joe

[Russell Kanning]

I think that makes us more powerful than the greek and roman gods/but not necessarily any more clever.

But didn't they live forever?

[sandm000]

Russel:

If by "forever" you mean "until stopped believing in them" , sure

or how about

Dionysus died each winter, and was born again each spring. so he lived for 75% of forever, spending 3 out of every twelve months dead. (But not for tax reasons) Adonis was also sometimes alive and sometimes dead.  And being a god was more a function of location than anything else, I mean look how many people made a trip from olympus to hades or vice versa and in one spot you're dead, but in the other you're a god.

It's not really simply

[Russell Kanning]

If I was a greek god I would smite you with thunder and lightning for shortening my name.