Boston.com: "Vermont secession movement gains traction"

[KBCraig]

What's the UN position on clean water?

Same as the UN position on everything else: that the US should pay for everyone else in the world to have all of it that they want.

[CNHT]

What's the UN position on clean water?

Same as the UN position on everything else: that the US should pay for everyone else in the world to have all of it that they want.

+1 up your karma KB bay-bee! 

[EthanAllen]

would it be more selfish of him to "rent" some of his money to a young builder who will go without a house if he can't get a loan or to refuse to lend the money and leave the young builder with no means to get ahead?

What would he get for his "rent" of money if the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited (free)?

If the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited, and there were no interest payments, anybody who wanted to could go get great big wheelbarrows of "money" to carry around with them.

Exactly. With no barriers to entry into the credit market by the state, a supplier of credit would not be able to charge usurious rates of "rent".

[jsorens]

would it be more selfish of him to "rent" some of his money to a young builder who will go without a house if he can't get a loan or to refuse to lend the money and leave the young builder with no means to get ahead?

What would he get for his "rent" of money if the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited (free)?

If the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited, and there were no interest payments, anybody who wanted to could go get great big wheelbarrows of "money" to carry around with them.

Exactly. With no barriers to entry into the credit market by the state, a supplier of credit would not be able to charge usurious rates of "rent".

You didn't respond to my refutation of this argument. It's a couple pages back.

[cxxguy]

would it be more selfish of him to "rent" some of his money to a young builder who will go without a house if he can't get a loan or to refuse to lend the money and leave the young builder with no means to get ahead?

What would he get for his "rent" of money if the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited (free)?

If the market for access to credit was virtually unlimited, and there were no interest payments, anybody who wanted to could go get great big wheelbarrows of "money" to carry around with them.

Exactly. With no barriers to entry into the credit market by the state, a supplier of credit would not be able to charge usurious rates of "rent".

What do you consider usurious?  Is there a particular percentage?  Does this number vary with conditions, or is it a constant?  Do you consider it to be unfair for people to stop lending money when the laws of reality (which Libertarians do not support repealing) make lending money at your magic rate a self destructive act?  Or do you propose to force people to "lend" out their money to anyone and everyone at rates that guarantee their destruction?

[Russell Kanning]

What's the UN position on clean water?

Same as the UN position on everything else: that the US should pay for everyone else in the world to have all of it that they want.

I think he meant that sometimes he and the UN have similar goals .... but that doesn't mean they have all the same goals

[CNHT]

I think he meant that sometimes he and the UN have similar goals .... but that doesn't mean they have all the same goals

Yes that's true -- goals overlap. However, I am loathe to do anything that would help the UN with its ultimate goal which is to rearrange the geo-socio-political structure of the world's countries, basically eradicating them and replacing them by divisions of bio-regional areas and re-situating thousands of people from their homes to the 'safe' areas out of areas they deem to be eco-protected. Ecology after all is the new 'religion' which I fear the most when it comes to being used to force people to pay carbon taxes or give up land to the government.

Could not be more Orwellian.

Personally responsible people do not, nor do they advocate polluting water so it has nothing to do with anyone's ideas about clean water.
They don't necessarily have to put the UN in charge of their whole lives, even to the point of reorganizing their countries, to have clean water.



PS - You know there will be a couple of 'lefty' groups at the picnic -- PrioritiesNH and Carbon Coalition.
Last year, PNH guy was amazed at how many agreed about federal spending for foreign affairs but they disagreed totally that the money should be used by government to fund education, and said he must have heard a million times that gov't and education should be separate.

Likewise, the Carbon Coalition is proud that it passed (non-binding) resolutions in towns that say they demand someone at the national level to 'do something' about global warming. Well, doing something to them, means a UN tax on everyone in the world who can afford to pay for it like KB said. I'm not sure they'll like it when they hear that most are opposed to taxes in any shape or form.

The people who voted for this resolution in the towns had no clue what they were voting for, because then they turned around in most cases and voted down new taxes at the local level! Of course this goal is never mentioned. I mean, if someone comes up to you and says "I'm against killing puppies! I'm for motherhood and apple pie!" are you going to oppose them? Why no. But they are pulling the same alarmist crap that is done with other things.

Anyway there are going to be a lot of new people there this year and I just hope they come back and join us next year and in the meantime get involved in monitoring their local government and expose some of these groups for what they are doing, and vote to help keep the taxes at bay.

[EthanAllen]

Ecology after all is the new 'religion' which I fear the most when it comes to being used to force people to pay carbon taxes

We already have a carbon tax in place today. In economic parlance they are just called "externalities". Unfortunately those that pollute are unjustly subjecting their costs upon innocent third parties.

[EthanAllen]

What do you consider usurious?

Any "rent" that is derived via the state granting of privilege like what we have today with the issuing of credit.

[NC2NH]

Folks, please don't fee the trolls?

With all due respect, CNHT, EthanAllen's posts are relevant to the topic. I am interested in what he has to say even though I suspect I disagree with him on a lot of things. Until he starts interjecting diatribes across the forum, I am not going to consider him a troll.

Jane, I apologize for doubting your intuition about EthanAllen. It would've been nice to simply debate his labor theory of value ideas. Instead we have the same old troll.

[CNHT]

No need to apologize. It was just a good guess. I mean who else would be called 'Ethan Allen'? LOL

When it comes to harping I don't have a thread with 340 posts in it, so...I might be harping on Ron Paul but I *am* working to get him elected.