NO HUMAN IS ILLEGAL!

[error]

I am a citizen unto myself.

[mvpel]

Are they "immigrants" in good faith, seeking to join the American community and support its ideals and principles of individual liberty, or are they invaders and would-be conquerors?  What do these two images say to you about that question?

[lowen]

Mmm...scaretactics. The kind only politicians can dream up.

[FTL_Ian]

Are they "immigrants" in good faith, seeking to join the American community and support its ideals and principles of individual liberty, or are they invaders and would-be conquerors?  What do these two images say to you about that question?

Says to me they're pretty pissed off at the United States government.  I don't blame them.

[Brock]

Clearly this is one issue that Anarchists such as yourself and Constitutionalists such as myself will never see eye to eye.  I like Hamilton see letting everyone freely walk into the country at will with no rules or guidelines established for their entry as the equivalent of wheeling in the large wood horse.

I would be interested in reading evidence of your statement that they are a net gain to Texas because everything I've read suggests the opposite.

Case in point:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=19293
http://media.www.dailytitan.com/media/storage/paper861/news/2007/06/26/Opinion/Illegal.Immigration.Is.A.Drain.On.Our.Economy-2918450.shtml?refsource=collegeheadlines
http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=260577274925923

A study by the Lone Star Foundation in Austin, Texas, says illegal aliens drain $4.5 billion from the Texas economy alone, mostly in health care costs.

First link speaks only to demographics and then demagogues that into "economy of a Third Word [sic] country".  FAIL

Second link gives a scary headline with nothing but opinion in the article.  FAIL

Third link has links to some reports I haven't seen, yet.  I'll take a look.

The quote you pulled out from the fourth link is refuted decimated by none other than the Texas Comptroller:

http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/7conclusion.html

The Comptroller's office estimates the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our Gross State Product of $17.7 billion. Also, the Comptroller's office estimates that state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants exceed what the state spent on services, with the difference being $424.7 million

The report notes that Texas hospitals were in the hole $1.3 billion in 2004.  This is not surprising, since the only way an undocumented immigrant CAN pay is if they have cash on them at the time they seek treatment.  Since they are prevented by the government from participating fully in the economic system and are understandably reluctant to give a billing address, the hospital gets cash or it gets nada.

The solution to a government-created problem is not another government program.

[mvpel]

Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours...is a composition of the freest principles of the English constitution, with others derived from natural rights and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies.

Yet, from such, we are to expect the greatest number of emigrants. They will bring with them the principles of government they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.

These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and tender it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.

Sounds like a spot-on description of the California Codes, come to think of it.

[AntonLee]

Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours...is a composition of the freest principles of the English constitution, with others derived from natural rights and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies.

Yet, from such, we are to expect the greatest number of emigrants. They will bring with them the principles of government they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.

These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and tender it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass.

Sounds like a spot-on description of the California Codes, come to think of it.

you're not going to really get anywhere with this. . . . conspiracy theories about 9/11 are fine, but if you have a 'conspiracy theory' about a one nation continent you're called racist and bigoted.  You're told that you're not a real 'liberty lover' like they said on FTL the other night.  I just hope that people listening weren't thinking that was a fact, there could be good members who are willing to fight the government on numerous things to keep their personal freedoms who would be turned off to the entire movement by such things.  I play it off my iPod on the radio at work and the most loony libertarian guy I know, (he wants to walk into a police station with a fake bomb attached to himself). . . he said 'those guys just aren't for me I guess'. 

his explaination is that he'd rather pay for one welfare state than two. . . and that's all we're doing, is sending a signal out to all of the 3rd world that we will give you any entitlements you want, as long as you come here and be a slave for a while. . . then you'll be the new American Dream in the making. . . . pay none of the bills but get all of the services.

[FTL_Ian]

Why don't you call in tonight?  We'd love to have you.

[lildog]

How exactly is this a trojan horse situation? How will these people harm us?

They harm us by pushing politicians to take money from our pockets and give it to them.

If you were to stop the government from giving handouts you would in turn stop the flow of immigrants seeking to come here.

[FTL_Ian]

If you were to stop the government from giving handouts you would in turn stop the flow of immigrants seeking to come here.

Not so.  You'd stop the leeches.  Those who seek more freedom (most immigrants) would still come.   

[PinoX7]

IT IS NOT AN LEGAL/ILLEGAL 'IMMIGRATION ISSUE'
IVE POSTED THIS IN THE FORUM BEFORE AND YOU STILL REFUSE TO LISTEN
IVE SPOKEN TO MEXICAN/AMERICANS, However there loyalty was with america, just mexican pride


RIGHT NOW WE HAVE 13MILLION OR MORE ILLEGALS IN AMERICA WHOSE LOYALTY IS MEXICO

THEY DO NOT COME FOR WORK, THEY DO NOT COME AS IMMIGRANTS, THEY COME AS INVADERS, THEY CLAIM THIS CONTINENT, they call themselves La Raza - The Race..

Ive verified this with deserving mexican/americans who came over legally to get away from La Raza, because their agenda is outragous. I dont think you understand that these peoples agenda is to send all white, black and brown people back to their continents in africa and europe. Theye plan to create a new Nation Of Aztlan, They hate america, americans, Laws, constitutions, their loyalty is to their Race,(Just like Hitler)

Think its a joke? How about over 45,000 americans murdered by illegal Mecha Gangsters since 9/11
Its up to 25 American citizens murdered a day, attacks on trains, schools and of course the Minutemen protesters, the police do Nothing, just like their told, INFACT the police disarm the Minutemen so they dont go around defending themselves.........

Like i said, most immigrants have much better work ethic, and are great resource and we should never turn them away... BUT when they want to completly avoid the legal process so they can get into america and go on rampages..... 22 Texas Farmers killed and mutilated over the weekend... Probibly minutemen... the only people standing upto these millions of gangsters.. invaders.



Check out The Watch Dog.. they like the police because they think they will help them when the Mechas decide to strike, boy are they wrong.. But they do have alot of great information
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheWatchdog

Heres some of that Mecha Propaganda they show in mexico and america
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIW-BZ8oLrk

And heres a 6min movie that is anti-immigrant that shows the true nature of these millions of invaders, it may not be pretty but thats because its brutally honest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQFmeXfrlSM

[lowen]

For the last time, I don't care about, nor am I afraid of, "La Raza." Seriously, let them come in.

[Braddogg]

 

[lildog]

If you were to stop the government from giving handouts you would in turn stop the flow of immigrants seeking to come here.

Not so.  You'd stop the leeches.  Those who seek more freedom (most immigrants) would still come.   

Do you at least agree the leeches (those only interested in the first four letters of freedom) are a problem?

[mvpel]

For the last time, I don't care about, nor am I afraid of, "La Raza." Seriously, let them come in.

That's fine in states where the right to keep and bear arms is respected, but not so much for California.