Direct Action for Open Borders

[Caleb]

They don't have to be sending troops to other countries to abuse people, they concentrate on being a menace to their own citizens and starve them and abuse them regularly. Otherwise, why would they all want to come here?

Jane, this is ridiculous. If you don't know why Mexico's economy is so fucked up, then I suggest you get on the phone and call up Ron Paul and ask him what the CIA has been doing in Mexico, and also what the IMF and World Bank have been doing in Mexico. Once Ron has explained it to you, then you will know why the Mexican economy is in the tank.

Mexico has problems.  Like all Latin American countries, it has also been a theater for US aggression in the form of covert political and economic games. You think Mexico is bad, you should see what the US has done to Honduras, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and El Salvador.

[Brock]

Eliminating socialism and securing borders are not compatible goals.  At best, you replace socialism with authoritarianism.

OMG! Do you hold a grudge against your parents for something they did to you when you were growing up? Laws are 'authoritarian' to some degree. Any society of more than one person is going to have laws. Period. Grow up and get over it!  I have never seen such verbal gyrations to excuse lawlessness!

Yes, please show me the "law" that is broken.  Oh, and be sure to show how that law applies to someone on the other side of your imaginary line.

[KBCraig]

Mexico doesn't have troops in over 130 countries. Mexico doesn't bomb anyone. Mexico doesn't torture anyone. Mexico doesn't have a foreign intelligence service whose goal is to establish dictatorships in other countries. Mexico is a victim of, not a cause of, predatory IMF and world bank practices. (You ought to know about the IMF and the World Bank, they're part of the global agenda that you hate.)

All quite true. And also irrelevant to immigration policies.

For all its problems, Mexico isn't a menace to the rest of the world like the US is.

That's true. Mexico is mainly a menace to Mexicans, which is why I don't blame them for trying to come here. Mexico is also a menace to the Hondurans and Guatemalans trying to either find a better life in Mexico, or find a much better life by sneaking through Mexico to America.

Not exactly a paradise, no matter their stance on marijuana.

Kevin

[FTL_Ian]

plan on reading some books that discuss the anarchist philosophy, and how it could work in practice.

May I suggest "The Market for Liberty"?

[FTL_Ian]

I have never seen such verbal gyrations to excuse lawlessness!

There is no excuse for government law.

[CNHT]

Oh, and be sure to show how that law applies to someone on the other side of your imaginary line.

This is where you are wrong. We have an agreement with the countries to our north and south as to where our countries begin and theirs end...and we don't try to go there illegally, so why do they try to come here?

If I were your neighbor I don't let my dog dump in your yard and say oh well it's just an imaginary line. You'd be the first one to call the cops on anyone who did that. I find that the ones who are strongest to say everything belongs to everyone and it's all free, are the worst when it comes to protecting their own territory because someone didn't follow their rules.

[CNHT]

I have never seen such verbal gyrations to excuse lawlessness!

There is no excuse for government law.

Yup that sure makes a lot of sense. Hmm. Well if you only could put this much effort into stopping the income tax I'd be impressed since they're planning one right now. OH and a sales tax too. You gonna pay it?

[forsytjr]

May I suggest "The Market for Liberty"?

Definitely.  Isn't that the one that you are going to make an audio book of?  I've read Milton Friedman, and now Hajek (Road to Serfdom was awesome).  My understanding is that Milton's son had some good books as well, so those are on the list.  I'm also focusing a bit on education, with Gatto's book on the history of eduction.

[Brock]

May I suggest "The Market for Liberty"?

Definitely.  Isn't that the one that you are going to make an audio book of?  I've read Milton Friedman, and now Hajek (Road to Serfdom was awesome).  My understanding is that Milton's son had some good books as well, so those are on the list.  I'm also focusing a bit on education, with Gatto's book on the history of eduction.

Gatto's book is great.  He spends too much time on conspiracy garbage, but the empirical evidence is scary!

Oh, and be sure to show how that law applies to someone on the other side of your imaginary line.

This is where you are wrong. We have an agreement with the countries to our north and south as to where our countries begin and theirs end...and we don't try to go there illegally, so why do they try to come here?

If I were your neighbor I don't let my dog dump in your yard and say oh well it's just an imaginary line. You'd be the first one to call the cops on anyone who did that. I find that the ones who are strongest to say everything belongs to everyone and it's all free, are the worst when it comes to protecting their own territory because someone didn't follow their rules.

Jane, be serious.  "We" don't have agreements with anybody.  I have evidence of title and documented survey of my properties.

Forget showing the law.  I'll tell you what it says.  You cannot enter or leave the US without authorization of the federal government. 

There is no "legal border" and even in your authoritarian paradise there is no justification for requiring someone on one side of an imaginary line to respect the laws on the other side of the line.  So, for someone to be subject to your "laws" they have to be on your side of the imaginary line.  If they are on your side of the imaginary line, they can only be "illegals" if they cross back to the other side.

Holy crap!  I must be nuts to think that that's how it works!

Maybe so, but then so are the courts who don't incarcerate "illegals" for being in the country, they just truck them back to a place they consider outside the jurisdiction.

[Braddogg]

You walked into that one, Jane

Well I for one don't think following a law is necessarily violence.

Following a law doesn't always result in violence . . . but disobeying it may be hazardous to my anus.

[Braddogg]

That is an awful cliché.  No one is saying that you should open your home, Jane.  We're just saying that closed borders means a big government police state.  You can't have it any other way.

[. . . .] But if you haven't studied that for 30 years, you would not know [. . . .]

Sorry, Ian, you better just bow out of this discussion, because there's no way you could understand this stuff without having started researching it five years before your birth . . . .

[CNHT]

There is no "legal border" and even in your authoritarian paradise there is no justification for requiring someone on one side of an imaginary line to respect the laws on the other side of the line. 

Really. I find that quite extreme and I'm unable to converse with someone who is so far out to lunch on this. If you want a country you have borders and your surrounding countries respect those borders and vice versa. That's the norm, not something you read about in a book.

I mean, you're right and a trillion other people are wrong...

[CNHT]

Jane, be serious.  "We" don't have agreements with anybody.  I have evidence of title and documented survey of my properties.

I think you should be the one to get serious here... What if I don't consider that your title and survey is the 'law' as you say...and decide I have a right to that property. I'll bet we'd hear a whole lot of screaming then...you betcha. The world doesn't revolve around you and you alone to decide what is a boundary and what isn't, it's got to be uniform and fair, if at all.

Wanting to live in a defined COUNTRY does not make it 'authoritarian'.

[Lloyd Danforth]

plan on reading some books that discuss the anarchist philosophy, and how it could work in practice.

May I suggest "The Market for Liberty"?

And...Machinery Of Freedom

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=blended&keywords=Machinery%20of%20freedom&_encoding=UTF8

[FTL_Ian]

Really. I find that quite extreme and I'm unable to converse with someone who is so far out to lunch on this. If you want a country you have borders and your surrounding countries respect those borders and vice versa. That's the norm, not something you read about in a book.

Why would anyone want a country?

I mean, you're right and a trillion other people are wrong...

Argumentum ad populum.