Direct Action for Open Borders

[CNHT]

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56216

[YeahItsMeJP]

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

According to Article One, Section 8 of the United States Constitution (the section that defines the scope of Legislative Power), Congress only has the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization - no where does it say immigration. But am I only spliting hairs? Well, no, not according to the English Language that is beloved by those who wish to establish it as the "official" one for the US:

immigration: To enter and settle in a country or region to which one is not native

naturalization: To confer upon an immigrant the rights and privileges of a citizen

Congress has the power to establish laws regarding the later, but not the former. Obey the Constitution Jane and stop being a communist.

[CNHT]

Obey the Constitution Jane and stop being a communist.

That's a low blow JP because we all know that I have not been advocating roundups, simply making people wait their turn to apply for privileges so we are talking about naturalization.

And if a policy PROMOTES socialism, it's as good as socialism as far as most would think.

Sovereignty is not communism any more than giving someone permission to visit you in your home, but not giving them permission to move in for free, would be communism.

If you truly believe in a free for all, then you must LOVE George W Bush...

[lildog]

JP you should have kept reading.

Article I Section 9 reads as follows:

Section 9. The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.

No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.

No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

[Brock]

JP you should have kept reading.

Article I Section 9 reads as follows:

Section 9. The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

No bill of attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state.

No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one state over those of another: nor shall vessels bound to, or from, one state, be obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another.

No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence of appropriations made by law; and a regular statement and account of receipts and expenditures of all public money shall be published from time to time.

No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/tocs/a1_9_1.html

That clause is definitely NOT about immigration or naturalization.

[lildog]

Every species of government has its specific principles. Ours...is a composition of the freest principles of the English constitution, with others derived from natural rights and natural reason. To these nothing can be more opposed than the maxims of absolute monarchies. Yet, from such, we are to expect the greatest number of emigrants. They will bring with them the principles of government they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proportion to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and tender it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass. - Thomas Jefferson

To admit foreigners indiscriminately to the rights of citizens, the moment they foot in our country would be nothing less than to admit the Grecian horse into the citadel of our liberty and sovereignty. - Alexander Hamilton

[AntonLee]

Wonderful. A sit-in.
The perfect way to alienate anyone who might have had even the remotest chance of agreeing with you.

Given that Sununu is probably the most Libertarian Senator in Washington, and given that many Libertarians (like myself) used to be Republicans until the libertarian position on immigration was clearly explained, he might just come around to our way of thinking, if you cared enough to really engage him on a respectful, intellectual level.

Or, you can make pests of yourselves and take over his office.
Not the way to start a productive exchange of philosophies, JP.

Let me know the day of your sit-in, I'll make sure I call his office that day and remind him that there are some Liberty Lovers who don't want slave labor in the country.  There are also free-stater's that don't want a permanent flow of uneducated, unimmunized 3rd worlders moving in next door to turn it into Lawrence, Massachusetts.  They don't want a drain on the tax money that we do pay, and they don't want more people that will hop the line of true immigrants who will get the shaft in shamnesty.

We do all have our ways.

[mvpel]

Close the schools, open the borders.

It's very simple.

People who can't pay their own way should not mooch off of others by threat of force.

[KBCraig]

I'm with mvpel, as long as we do it in that order.

I had mixed feelings about amnesty, then I had a little epiphany. I support drug legalization, as do many here. When we achieve legalization, would it be called "amnesty" if we didn't prosecute those who had illegally possessed drugs during prohibition? Of course not, and to prosecute them for something that was no longer illegal would plainly be wrong.

It's no different with immigration.

[mvpel]

The only problem with immigration today is that 75% of federal spending is on entitlements, and as we all know here in New Hampshire, another major percentage of our local taxes goes to schools, another entitlement.

If the government wasn't principally in the business of subsidizing poverty and indolence, and subsidizing the education of even the well-to-do people's children, I suspect nobody would have any issue with immigration.  People who could support themselves would stay, and people who couldn't would go home.

The situation we have now directly supports a slave-like relationship between employer and illegal employee - the slave-wage-paying employer, instead of holding a whip, holds the threat of deportation over their chattel.  It's corrupt and corrosive, and it's directly supported by our nation's failure in immigration policy.