Illegals kill more americans than Iraqies

[CNHT]

You've hit the nail on the head! The problem is entitlements, welfare, entitlements, public education, and entitlements.

BINGO! So, knowing this condition exists, why would Bush and the rest of the Republi-Cons want to open borders wide?
If they were truly doing this for the sake of the freedom of people, they would get rid of the entitlements.

They have no such intent.

Meanwhile, found this interesting anti-Republi-Con blog:

http://www.webloggin.com/dear-soon-to-be-former-senator/

[error]

To collapse the system faster?

On that note, I read somewhere that immigrants use those services at a much smaller rate than the rest of the population.

[AntonLee]

To collapse the system faster?

On that note, I read somewhere that immigrants use those services at a much smaller rate than the rest of the population.

yes I'm sure that my dead grandfather is using services he NEVER used not ONCE in his lifetime.  So really, it wouldn't be the illegal alien using the services, it'd be my dead grandfather via the body of an illegal alien.

but then again, we're all just reading things somewhere.  I just read what you wrote, how many times does it have to be written to become fact?  Should we take all that you say you read as fact?  I'm not just reading, I'm seeing. . .and what I see is a lot of hard working people sending money home to their families so that they can live rich.  Good for them.  What I also see is that these same people use services under names that are not theirs.  This isn't something I read. . . this is FACT because it has happened in front of my own two eyes. 

but then again I'm just some silly nativist who hates all hispanics right?  haha

[lildog]

To collapse the system faster?

On that note, I read somewhere that immigrants use those services at a much smaller rate than the rest of the population.

Come on, open your eyes...  Look at other countries around the world in which the government drains off the productive and gives handouts to the dregs.  Many are far more blatant then the US and far more aggressively socialistic.  I don't see our system collapsing any time in our lifetimes or even our children's lifetimes.  No instead you will see them cheer on each loss of liberty as they have been doing year after year believing that the government is helping them when in reality it is the government causing the majority of the problems they are looking for the help with.

[Brock]

...
Still waiting to hear which law has been broken by folks who don't pass through customs on the way in, though.  ...

Well, I decided to look up the relevant laws and see what case law supports. The results were surprising so thank you for the challenge...
Title 8, section 1325 part a states...
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=8&sec=1325

   (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
      misrepresentation and concealment of facts
      Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
    at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
    officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
    officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
    States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
    willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
    commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
    imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
    commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
    imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

Here is a good writeup about the subject matter http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01918.htm
So, from my limited legal understanding...
Punishment for illegal entry for the first time is a misdemeanor and the second time is a felony. So the law is not as ... harsh?... as I thought it was.

Having dug deeper, those who aid and abet illegal entry face much harsher penalties...
All this being said, I would not be surprised that there is some super double secret law they can hit you with if they wanted...
LFoD

That's still administrative law, though.  It only applies to a judge or bureaucrat, it doesn't describe a crime.  The crime is described in

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001185----000-.html

§ 1185. Travel control of citizens and aliens

(a) Restrictions and prohibitions
Unless otherwise ordered by the President, it shall be unlawful—
(1) for any alien to depart from or enter or attempt to depart from or enter the United States except under such reasonable rules, regulations, and orders, and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may prescribe;
(2) for any person to transport or attempt to transport from or into the United States another person with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the departure or entry of such other person is forbidden by this section;
(3) for any person knowingly to make any false statement in an application for permission to depart from or enter the United States with intent to induce or secure the granting of such permission either for himself or for another;
(4) for any person knowingly to furnish or attempt to furnish or assist in furnishing to another a permit or evidence of permission to depart or enter not issued and designed for such other person's use;
(5) for any person knowingly to use or attempt to use any permit or evidence of permission to depart or enter not issued and designed for his use;
(6) for any person to forge, counterfeit, mutilate, or alter, or cause or procure to be forged, counterfeited, mutilated, or altered, any permit or evidence of permission to depart from or enter the United States;
(7) for any person knowingly to use or attempt to use or furnish to another for use any false, forged, counterfeited, mutilated, or altered permit, or evidence of permission, or any permit or evidence of permission which, though originally valid, has become or been made void or invalid.
(b) Citizens
Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.
(c) Definitions
The term "United States" as used in this section includes the Canal Zone, and all territory and waters, continental or insular, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. The term "person" as used in this section shall be deemed to mean any individual, partnership, association, company, or other incorporated body of individuals, or corporation, or body politic.
(d) Nonadmission of certain aliens
Nothing in this section shall be construed to entitle an alien to whom a permit to enter the United States has been issued to enter the United States, if, upon arrival in the United States, he is found to be inadmissible under any of the provisions of this chapter, or any other law, relative to the entry of aliens into the United States.
(e) Revocation of proclamation as affecting penalties
The revocation of any rule, regulation, or order issued in pursuance of this section shall not prevent prosecution for any offense committed, or the imposition of any penalties or forfeitures, liability for which was incurred under this section prior to the revocation of such rule, regulation, or order.
(f) Permits to enter
Passports, visas, reentry permits, and other documents required for entry under this chapter may be considered as permits to enter for the purposes of this section.

The problem is, no matter how much you want it to, it doesn't apply to persons not already in the United States.  The penalties you showed are a direct result of the knowledge that simply crossing the border can not be a crime.  If the penalties are made harsher, the "crime" will be challenged.

[CA_Libertarian]

You've hit the nail on the head! The problem is entitlements, welfare, entitlements, public education, and entitlements.

Yep, because THESE are the things that attract the scum of the earth.  If each person earned their keep, we would only be getting the "good" people.  Then we wouldn't WANT to limit/impede immigration.

[umbcpaleoconservative]

No, taxes will go up thanks to the greater number of illegals here and the social services we'll have to pay for them. I do think ending the welfare state and giving amnesty is a prescription for disaster though. Round em up and deport them and then abolish the welfare state. Problem solved.

Oh, come on.  Here's what qualifies as analysis for this crap:

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=737771

It's not even worth quoting.

Still waiting to hear which law has been broken by folks who don't pass through customs on the way in, though.  Jane?

I wouldn't care about all the illegal invaders if I wasn't voting, paying taxes, paying social security or paying attention.  If you're into "screw your fellow citizen". . . you'll be all for this shamnesty.  Some people are, and that's their perogative.  If you've got the time to sit down at an office, write a letter, make a phone call. .. . good for you, go for it.   I'll have one to offset it.   I hear all this talk about what specific laws. . . . specifics matter not, because we all know it's there, it's just if you agree with the law or not.  In a way, the illegal alien coyote industry falls under commerce and commerce can be regulated correct?  To regulate this commerce we create the INS or ICE correct? 

We go about this all wrong. . . to remove illegal aliens is to do things that are very liberty loving. . . . you remove their welfare, by removing welfare for all.  You make people pay real money for each kid they send to school.  You put pressure on companies who hire illegal aliens and circumvent relevent taxes and worker protections by "sitting down" in front of their business, you don't use their products or services, and you make sure it's known why. 

Do we think that taxes might go down once illegals are given shamnesty?   

[umbcpaleoconservative]

They are the ones initiating force by crossing that invisible line in the sand. Would you feel comfortable with someone walking onto your property and squatting on it and never leaving?

I'm always amazed how many otherwise freedom-loving people support the current Cheney/Rockefeller/bank-backed open border situation.

The current border situation involves a police-state infrastructure with random stops even inside the confines of the US.  It's not about international banker loving.  It's about not initiating force on people even if they were born far away.  When I read "all men are created equal" I don't take it to mean "all men who have requested and purchased permission to exist from the US government".

[Brock]

They are the ones initiating force by crossing that invisible line in the sand. Would you feel comfortable with someone walking onto your property and squatting on it and never leaving?

If I claimed the land as my own, yet did not protect it and use it, no.  Squatting and bringing the land into productivity are the only moral means of acquiring previously unowned property. 

I'm pretty sure that's not what you were asking though.  I'm also pretty sure that you don't have any sort of claim on property which is currently occupied by squatters.  You're just erecting strawman on behalf of those individuals.

Burn, strawman, burn.

[CNHT]

Squatting and bringing the land into productivity are the only moral means of acquiring previously unowned property. 

Ah so you advocate stealing now? Just because the owner isn't looking?

[Caleb]

Section 4 - Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

What is an "invasion" if not what is currently underway? First we allow unsound money, the state grows, and now tptb are almost finished in trying to return everyone to surfdom and slavery. I'm always amazed how many otherwise freedom-loving people support the current Cheney/Rockefeller/bank-backed open border situation. Someone explain that to me, really, because I hear it often here. Why are people so much on the side of the banks and the mega corps?

Yeah ... I don't get real excited about the Constitution. I think it is a horrible document that concentrates government at the expense of individual freedom.

Do you have another argument?

[CNHT]

Section 4 - Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

What is an "invasion" if not what is currently underway? First we allow unsound money, the state grows, and now tptb are almost finished in trying to return everyone to surfdom and slavery. I'm always amazed how many otherwise freedom-loving people support the current Cheney/Rockefeller/bank-backed open border situation. Someone explain that to me, really, because I hear it often here. Why are people so much on the side of the banks and the mega corps?

Not everyone here likes the Constitution as much as we do Henry.

[Caleb]

I like the Declaration of Independence, though.  Does that count?

[error]

I like the Kyfho principle.

[Brock]

Squatting and bringing the land into productivity are the only moral means of acquiring previously unowned property. 

Ah so you advocate stealing now? Just because the owner isn't looking?

That's not theft, it's called first use.