"Zeitgeist"--the Movie

[Russell Kanning]

Beware, Russell, Part 1 is kind of "Christianity Truth" movement stuff.

and, seemingly ironically, I don't believe, like you have stated, that religions are frauds by their nature...

I can usually survive most of that sort of thing.

I guess I use the term "religion" in 2 bad ways even though the Bible is translated with it used both bad and good ... mostly bad.

Religion ... as organized religion where it has connection with the state or for the leaders personal gain (more than one religion was invented for the guy to get chicks and money)

religiosity ... as in self-righteousness or hippocracy

I don't like to be called religious, because I always use it as a bad term. As you use it Jack, I wouldn't mind it too much. I am sure I would be hippocritical no matter which way you meant the term.

[Russell Kanning]

I'm genuinely curious to hear your impressions, Russell; your absence in the discussion has been conspicuous. I wondered if you had watched it but kept quiet about it.

I just found the thread today. The title didn't mean anything to me until Kat was looking at it.
I can't keep quiet about anything, including things I should.

[Russell Kanning]

Maybe I've misunderstood the elementary astrology I've heard. I just know I've heard people say things like Jesus was actually born on January 5th

I think the best guess is january 3rd or 4th in BC3.

I heard it was in the April timeframe.

I don't know where December 25th comes from. It makes sense what Friday said that it is tied to the winter solstice or something.

I think if you just go by the specific dates and some clues in the Bible and how they match with Roman history and such you come up with ... Late December/Early January ... 3/4BC. (BTW ... I don't think the "wise men" were not in attendance unlike all the movies)
We spent a short time on the subject in my Bible Chronology class in college. It was a good course.

[Russell Kanning]

I mean, religion has even caused people to NOT VOTE!

Thanks for the recognition 

Amen Brothers and Sisters

[srqrebel]

We got to this point incrementally, thus we shall have to get away from this point incrementally.

Appears like good reasoning at first glance... but it really is a non sequitur.  Just because it took years to accumulate a pile of junk, doesn't mean it has to take years to get rid of it.

I am thinking more and more that we are out of time, and that it is way too late for an incremental approach.  There is an urgent need to outflank the State now.

I will expand on this thought in a new thread... coming soon.

[Russell Kanning]

We got to this point incrementally, thus we shall have to get away from this point incrementally.

Appears like good reasoning at first glance... but it really is a non sequitur.  Just because it took years to accumulate a pile of junk, doesn't mean it has to take years to get rid of it.

Sometimes it is best to just burn it up.

[Insurgent]

Maybe I've misunderstood the elementary astrology I've heard. I just know I've heard people say things like Jesus was actually born on January 5th

I think the best guess is january 3rd or 4th in BC3.

I heard it was in the April timeframe.

I don't know where December 25th comes from. It makes sense what Friday said that it is tied to the winter solstice or something.

I think if you just go by the specific dates and some clues in the Bible and how they match with Roman history and such you come up with ... Late December/Early January ... 3/4BC. (BTW ... I don't think the "wise men" were not in attendance unlike all the movies)
We spent a short time on the subject in my Bible Chronology class in college. It was a good course.

The film explains the history of December 25th; it has to do with the Sun.

[Insurgent]

I'm genuinely curious to hear your impressions, Russell; your absence in the discussion has been conspicuous. I wondered if you had watched it but kept quiet about it.

I just found the thread today. The title didn't mean anything to me until Kat was looking at it.
I can't keep quiet about anything, including things I should.

I can understand that...many times I brush over certain threads just because the titles don't seem pertinent or interesting. The title of the film, by the way, is a German word meaning "The spirit of the time; the taste and outlook characteristic of a period or generation."

Hopefully you don't keep quiet about the film after you're done watching it, but wait until you do so! A few people on this thread seem to get anxious spouting off about it before they even watch the whole film

[jaqeboy]

An article by a former pastor stating the same astrological premise for the story of Jesus:

Counting Down to Christmas and the Birth of the SUN - Oops I mean SON

[Dreepa]

Wikipedia:

[edit] Birth
Historians conclude that Jesus was born around 6-4 BC As a Jewish peasant living in the tiny village of Nazareth, working with his father as a carpenter (Greek "tekton," meaning stone or wood worker), and by the very nature of his teachings it is highly likely that his family was very poor.


[edit] Year and date
See also: Census of Quirinius
The scholarly consensus, based on Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews is that Herod died at the end of March, or early April of 4 BC. For instance, he states that Herod Philip I's death took place, after a thirty-seven year reign, in the twentieth year of Tiberius, which would imply that he took over on Herod's death in 4 BC.[7] This would imply a date for the birth of Jesus earlier than 4 BC, based on the account in the Matthew Gospel. The Census of Quirinius, thought to be the one referred to in the Luke account, took place in 6 AD, which would imply a birth date ten years later than the Matthew version.

[dalebert]

Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, comments on this movie.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/08/delicious-consp.html

---

Delicious Conspiracy Theories

When I read The Da Vinci Code, I enjoyed it because I thought the historical information was based on fact. It wasn't, and I'm glad I know that now. I'm doubly glad I didn't know it when I read the book, as it would have spoiled the fun. Sometimes bullshit can be so delicious.

With that in mind, I recommend to you a movie on the Internet, available for free viewing, called Zeitgeist. It presents three entertaining arguments and ties them together:

1. The Bible is an obvious copy of earlier religions, designed to control the masses.

2. September 11th was staged by the U.S. government as a pretext for grabbing power and making money.

3. Rich bankers control the entire world.

Here's the link, but don't watch it until you have lots of quiet time to absorb it.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/

The beauty of the movie is not in its truth, if indeed it has any. I don't have the energy or desire to research it. What I found amazingly entertaining is how persuasive it is, even if it turns out to be entirely made up.

For example, I doubt September 11th was staged by the U.S. government. After all, we all saw the video of Bin Laden admitting he did it. How do you refute that? Well, the Zeitgeist movie shows a still frame of Bin Laden from that video next to a known photo of him, and they...don't...have...the...same...nose.

That's entertainment!

One possibility is that Bin Laden got a nose job. Or maybe it's just the angle of the photograph, or maybe I only imagine they look that different, or maybe someone doctored the photo to promote the conspiracy argument. As I said, I don't believe the allegations in the movie, but it's loaded with great-yet-questionable evidence that is a joy to behold. If you're looking for facts, I can't recommend this movie because I don't know what's real and what isn't. If you want some delicious alleged facts that sound convincing, you'll love it.

I believe the intent of the movie is to alarm people into being more skeptical of their government. It had the opposite effect on me. It made me happy to think there might be a plan. If the war on terror is real, it scares the shit out of me. But if, as the movie claims, it's entirely manufactured, and the war in Iraq is meant to be a permanent conflict to sell weapons and control oil – that is much less scary. It means the war will stay where it is and no one will "follow me home."

It also means the nuclear bomb ambitions of Iran are a lie. That's one less thing to worry about. All I have to do is stay out of the National Guard and invest my money in defense contractors and I'll be safe and happy. Those shadowy rich guys are doing a great job!

I know you'll send me links to web sites refuting key points in the movie. The arguments in those links will be impossible for a lazy guy like me to verify. But they might be entertaining, so send them anyway.

[Insurgent]

Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, comments on this movie.

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/08/delicious-consp.html
...I know you'll send me links to web sites refuting key points in the movie. The arguments in those links will be impossible for a lazy guy like me to verify. But they might be entertaining, so send them anyway.

The film maker had anticipated this sort of knee-jerk response and has this to say, on the "statement" page at http://zeitgeistmovie.com/statement.htm

"...that being said, It is my hope that people will not take what is said in the film as the truth, but find out for themselves, for truth is not told, it is realized."

[Insurgent]

I actually bought a copy of this movie... maybe we can have a movie night and all watch it in a few weeks!  I'll pop the popcorn, you all bring the beer!  hehehe

That would be great! What kind of "venue" do you have to view the film, or were you thinking of someplace else?

[Insurgent]

That would be great! What kind of "venue" do you have to view the film, or were you thinking of someplace else?

I've got a tiny TV in a decent-sized apartment which I dont move into until September 5th... but I know a guy named Kevin with a really big tv... hehehee OHHHHHH KEEEEEEEEEEVINNNNN!!! (You like how I just volunteered you??!!!)

*shrugs*  I'm up for whatever.  I've got the movie, tons of popcorn, and I'd be happy to host a movie night once I'm moved, but I don't wanna hear no gripes about my 26" TV... I'm not a big TV watcher, I don't see the need for anything bigger. 

Kevin's place would be an ideal venue for a film showing 

[error]

26" is not tiny. You obviously haven't seen Russell's TV.