"Zeitgeist"--the Movie

[jaqeboy]

Yeah, you should watch again - he did a "final cut" in that time period and a re-release just a couple of weeks ago. Official site: http://zeitgeistmovie.com.

[Friday]

OK, here are my thoughts, below the spoiler space gap; tawk amongst yourselves. 

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• Not to say that I don't believe all of the comparisons between the Christian story and the Egyptian/Greek/other cultures' religious stories, but I'm really amazed that I never heard about/noticed the gross similarities before.  Had anyone else heard that stuff before? I intend to try to verify some of those statements when I have a chance.
• Taking the religious facts presented as true for the moment, how...odd... that such different cultures, separated by time and space, had such very similar stories.  I wonder if that indicates some general tendency in the human brain to anthropomorphize aspects of nature? Or the aliens planting similar seeds at various points in human history? 
• Did anyone else notice the eery similarity between Morpheus telling Neo about human beings having been reduced to *this*, this being a battery... and at the end of the movie, the narrator saying that human beings will soon be reduced to *this*, this being a chip?  Now maybe that's because the guy who made the movie has seen the Matrix way too many times. Or maybe the Wachowski brothers just read/thought about the same sources as the guy who made the movie.  Or maybe, as Morpheus would say, "There are no coincidences".   
  
• I was a little thrown by the very end, where it seemed like the narrator spontaneously threw in optimism and nature-worshippy stuff with no segue.  It was like he left out the whole lead-in to that part.
• All of a sudden, I have this feeling that Rudy Giuliani will be the next POTUS. 

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[CNHT]

I stopped the movie at the five minute mark because it completely failed by that point to present anything remotely resembling content.

Same here. I figure it's just another Christian-bashing theory.

[alohamonkey]

OK, here are my thoughts, below the spoiler space gap; tawk amongst yourselves. 

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• Not to say that I don't believe all of the comparisons between the Christian story and the Egyptian/Greek/other cultures' religious stories, but I'm really amazed that I never heard about/noticed the gross similarities before.  Had anyone else heard that stuff before? I intend to try to verify some of those statements when I have a chance.

David Icke has been preaching about the Christian/Egyptian/Greek religious similarities for years.  I also think Dan Brown touched on it in the DaVinci code.  I've noticed that most symbologists tend toward this direction (i.e. all religions and all religious symbols are intertwined).  I know the background about the Egyptian sun god, Ra, is legit from my travels in Egypt.  I want to verify some of these other ideas when I have time too. 

• Taking the religious facts presented as true for the moment, how...odd... that such different cultures, separated by time and space, had such very similar stories.  I wonder if that indicates some general tendency in the human brain to anthropomorphize aspects of nature? Or the aliens planting similar seeds at various points in human history? 

It's been almost two months since I watched Zeitgeist so I may be wrong . . . but I think the movie was trying to show that almost all religions were based on astrology, the natural world, and the sun cycles.  Before TV, the internet, houses, cars, and everything else that exemplifies modern day life, humans only had themselves and nature.  I don't find it too extraordinary that religions would have been based on the sun, the stars, and nature.  Back then, people probably thought it was a miracle every morning when the sun came up.  They had nothing else to worship. 

• Did anyone else notice the eery similarity between Morpheus telling Neo about human beings having been reduced to *this*, this being a battery... and at the end of the movie, the narrator saying that human beings will soon be reduced to *this*, this being a chip?  Now maybe that's because the guy who made the movie has seen the Matrix way too many times. Or maybe the Wachowski brothers just read/thought about the same sources as the guy who made the movie.  Or maybe, as Morpheus would say, "There are no coincidences". 
  

I noticed that too. 

• I was a little thrown by the very end, where it seemed like the narrator spontaneously threw in optimism and nature-worshippy stuff with no segue.  It was like he left out the whole lead-in to that part.

I agree.  It seemed like the optimism was a little out of place.  Although, once people come to the realization that they're all the same/similar, the world might be a better place. 

[Friday]

• Taking the religious facts presented as true for the moment, how...odd... that such different cultures, separated by time and space, had such very similar stories.  I wonder if that indicates some general tendency in the human brain to anthropomorphize aspects of nature? Or the aliens planting similar seeds at various points in human history? 

It's been almost two months since I watched Zeitgeist so I may be wrong . . . but I think the movie was trying to show that almost all religions were based on astrology, the natural world, and the sun cycles.  Before TV, the internet, houses, cars, and everything else that exemplifies modern day life, humans only had themselves and nature.  I don't find it too extraordinary that religions would have been based on the sun, the stars, and nature.  Back then, people probably thought it was a miracle every morning when the sun came up.  They had nothing else to worship. 

Oh, I agree.  My point was that, even assuming you agree with the thesis that many different religions are based on astronomy/aspects of nature, I find it mystifying that the stories they come up with are so *very* similar, to the point of names being almost the same (despite the fact that these different cultures spoke different languages).  And details such as "at age 30, [insert Prophet-of-your-choice] began his ministry". 

I've read Dan Brown's two big ones, and I don't recall discussion of comparative religion, but maybe I'm just forgetting it.  I was already familiar with much of the Romans-coopted-preexisting-cultural-references stuff, just not the stuff about much older and less "famous" cultures sharing the exact same ideas. 

Curiously enough, they didn't teach comparative religion at Catholic school.   

[Dreepa]

aye carumba this thing is slow... I am at 10 minutes.

They need to edit it a bit so that it flows from segment to segment a little faster.

One note on the comments so far:

If we (humans) all came from the same starting point wouldn't it make sense that we had similarities in our religions?
Stories get handed down and corrupted over time?  (again I haven't finished yet that is just my thoughts on what I have read so far)

[Dreepa]

Ok I am now up to 35 minutes.

Much of this so far has been widely documented but this is all in one place.

They are a little off about the birth of Christianity.  How could it have been created by 'the gov' when they early Christians were being persecuted by the gov?  Also it was an 'underground' religion for much of the early days.

I will keep watching.

[Dreepa]

He likes a lot of 'black' screen when the narrator is talking doesn't he?

OH SHIT here it comes.... 9/11... I didn't see that coming.

I will keep watching.

[Dreepa]

Ok I watched it all.

First 30 minutes:  Stuff about religion
No segway
Next 30 minutes:  9/11  (I did like how he had the paragraph and zoomed in on each aspect of the word)
Small Segway
Next 30 minutes:  Federal Reserve
Segway
Next 20 minutes:  CFR/Rich Bankers/Group trying to make One World Govt
No segway
6 minutes of some New Age Stuff.

Maybe he couldn't decide which movie to make?

BTW  for people who are in agreement 100% with this movie... all the more reason to vote for Ron Paul.

He does have some facts wrong about WWI and WWII though.

[jaqeboy]

I think a few errors in detail are less important in Zeitgeist than the meta-message (Peter J, the creator invites suggestions and corrections: zeitgeist@zeitgeistmovie.com and he posts clarifications at the site: http://zeitgeistmovie.com/clarifications.htm).

The meta-message seems to be that throughout history, people and organizations have used lies, misstatements or complete fabrications, compiled into stories and scenes to create a Zeitgeist, which favors them and keeps us enslaved, but that there is hope in re-birthing a new corrected story, which consistently embodies the truth.

There is hope for ideas, I think he's saying, as do others in recent flix.

Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy. And ideas are bulletproof.

This interested me, since it rolls up several things I've been observing and learning. For example, last night's talk by Thomas Hansen in Portsmouth about "Creating Public Myth" and Steve Goodale's talk at the AltExpo about the way media outlets powerfully influence the dominant Zeitgeist through sophisticated mass mind control techniques. Many now benefit from the ability that technologies give us to seek and find the truth when the official story doesn't hold up.

If we break out of the created vision, the Matrix, we will need to fill in the gaps and cracks, or maybe rebuild the structure even all the way down to the whole sub-framework, the infrastructure of our new story that explains "How the World Really Works." We can use what we're learning here (Zeitgeist and elsewhere) to structure the new story which provides the safe feeling, the grounding for what our actions have to be to build a free society from the rubble we stand on.

Storytelling and stories become a familiar safe harbor where we can retreat to an ordered, self-contained world of imagination and useful information.

We are hard wired to listen and grasp stories. The same genes that lean towards successful social cooperation also lead us to successful storytelling interactions. Good stories are useful, humbling and entertaining as are good storytellers. Storytelling is the most successful, long running, honest and satisfying form of sharing knowledge, written or verbal, available to humans.

I saw Zeitgeist as a liberating piece, but now, adrift from the secure edifices of the old stories, we must create the new "story" from the facts and fragments that are left that we can believe in. This story is what will guide us and inspire others to join in the new societies created around the new story.

[Friday]

Good thoughts, jaqeboy.  I like what you have to say (I also liked what you had to say on the MVP list, but the banning was slam-dunked before I even had a chance to catch up on my daily digests).  And to continue the cosmic coincidences, as of right now we have exactly the same amount of karma.      

[Dreepa]

I think a few errors in detail are less important in Zeitgeist than the meta-message

If someone has their details wrong then maybe their whole premise is wrong?

You can't bitch that the government got some details wrong in the 9/11 report and then have details wrong yourself.

[jaqeboy]

What were his WWI and WW2 errors. I may have noticed them and glossed over them. On to my 3rd viewing soon to see if I can spot them.

[jaqeboy]

Good thoughts, jaqeboy.  I like what you have to say (I also liked what you had to say on the MVP list, but the banning was slam-dunked before I even had a chance to catch up on my daily digests).  And to continue the cosmic coincidences, as of right now we have exactly the same amount of karma.      

Must be the 7 - 7 - 7 thing , happening right here on the forum!!

[Dreepa]

He mentions 'soon after' the Lusitania sinks that the US joined WWI... I guess it depends on how you define 'soon after'
Sinking May 1915
US enters WWI April 1917    I am not saying that the Lusitania didn't have anything to do with it but it is not soon after.

Jesus has been thought by many scholars to really have been born in April.  However in Rome in order to have Mithra's followers and others change religion the birth was changed to be Dec 25... it didn't start out that way.

I am not saying that the movie didn't have valid points.  It is just not the end all be all.