What a Way to Go: Life at the End of Empire

[jaqeboy]

Oh, yeah. I haven't been to that since it was freezin' cold. Maybe again soon. Maybe see you at the movie over at Antioch.

[David]

work at 5, can't. 

[error]

That's why they invented those 15-person vans.

Anyway, half this thread has been about some other movie entirely, and you can ignore it. The half of the thread, and the movie it was about.

Back to topic: While researching the "What a Way to Go" movie, I ran across this related information: The Thirty Theses which lay out the foundation for understanding why civilization will and must collapse, and what role government (actually, imposed hierarchy in general) plays in it. It's absolutely fascinating reading.

[jaqeboy]

Back to topic: While researching the "What a Way to Go" movie, I ran across this related information: The Thirty Theses which lay out the foundation for understanding why civilization will and must collapse, and what role government (actually, imposed hierarchy in general) plays in it. It's absolutely fascinating reading.

Yikes, the theses are scary and bleak! Wait a minute, I thought there was hope... I'll read that site a little more fully tonight.

While looking around, I found this review of the movie.

A review by Kevin Moore

Stunning and captivating, this is surely the film we [the environmentally aware and politcally aware] have all been waiting for. Unlike other films with similar themes which offer watered-down versions of reality or offer cosmeticism as so-called solutions, What A Way To Go tells it how it really is – that humanity is charging full speed ahead, like a runaway train, towards self-annihilation, via destruction of the habitability of the planet we live on. And what is more, by following this path of destruction, we as a species are causing the extinction of countless other species.

What A Way To Go clearly identifies the dominant economic system as the culprit that is taking us towards catastrophe and shows how most of us have unconsciously accepted and adopted "stories" about the right way to live that are in practice founded on false or out-dated notions.

What A Way To Go tackles the great issues of our times in a sensitive, but straight-talking manner. The film is superbly edited, bringing together archive material and recent interviews with both experts in their fields and ordinary folk, to produce a coherent, well-paced story. The visual images reinforce the sometimes witty, sometimes droll, sometimes just plain informative narration. And the music enhances the messages and brings the finishing touch to a superb production.

There are few films of this nature that do not cause me to say: «That is not scientifically correct,» or, «The producers didn't think it through to its logical conclusion.» But this is one. What A Way To Go is one of the few films [on these topics] I can wholeheartedly say I am in almost complete agreement with, both in the scientific content that is presented and the implications for society that are highlighted. It is only the matter of whether disturbance to the thermo-haline conveyor [that could lead to localised cooling] will be overwhelmed by rapid heating of northern land masses that I might say: «I have my doubts.» Everything else in this film is pretty much spot on as far as I am concerned and therefore What A Way To Go is a must-see film for every adult with access to a cinema or a DVD player.

Kevin Moore
June 2007

[jaqeboy]

Something also found that might be relevant to some of the non-movie issues on this thread:

Non - violent communication. There was a workshop on it in Nashua a few years back that I missed. Have been hearing more about it from others, and still want to learn more.

[EthanAllen]

I see another area showing on their tour schedule:

White River Junction/Norwich, VT & Hanover, NH Area - August 11th: Saturday night at 6:30 PM at the Norwich Public Library, 368 Main St., Norwich, VT 05055. Suggested donation $10. For more information contact Margo Baldwin at 802-295-6300, ext 102 or mbaldwin@chelseagreen.com

Interestingly, Margo Baldwin is the wife of Ian Baldwin who is the editor and publisher of the Vermont Commons and one of the founding board members of the e.f. schumacher society.

http://vtcommons.org/

http://smallisbeautiful.org/

http://www.berkshares.org/

[error]

Yikes, the theses are scary and bleak! Wait a minute, I thought there was hope... I'll read that site a little more fully tonight.

You have to know where you are before you can know where you're going.

[J’raxis 270145]

Then your propaganda is asking people to not do what they want, and to try to resist and convince others to not do what they want, either. Honestly, if you're not trying to get someone to do or refrain from doing something, what's the point of talking about all this?

J'raxis, read the second and following sentences in the Wikipedia listing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda:

Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience.

...

Yes, I know the history of propaganda. But I tend to think that not all propaganda is bad—the definition, as you pasted, is simply presenting one-sided arguments in order to influence or galvanize an audience into action. Not all propaganda is bad, in my opinion—it only becomes so when it's untruthful, or truthful but misleading (in that it's trying to get people to draw incorrect conclusions), or otherwise under-handed or manipulative. The way the state has scientifically studied propaganda techniques, to the point where they can manipulate people without them knowing it, is just the most egregious example.

I've heard Tom Paine described as the propagandist of the American revolution. Much of what he wrote is definitely one-sided and intended to galvanize people into action, but I don't consider it to be a bad nor under-handed way of promoting the revolution.

[jaqeboy]

I've heard Tom Paine described as the propagandist of the American revolution. Much of what he wrote is definitely one-sided and intended to galvanize people into action, but I don't consider it to be a bad nor under-handed way of promoting the revolution.

I played Tom Paine on a Veritas Radio series in Nashua a few years back. It was fascinating researching him to prepare for the part.

You should also read The Grand Incendiary, A Biography of Samuel Adams - talk about incitement!

We watched a video earlier today (actually Sunday) at the Conspiracy Cafe down in Cambridge about propaganda & PR - Part 3 of the BBC 4 part series called The Century of the Self. The link to a portion of Part 2 is below in this thread.

I'll find the link to the page about the types of communications. I think what you're saying J'r is that all "persuasion" is not bad, whereas, I think all "propaganda" is bad (evil intent), by definition, but I'll look that up.

From Wikipedia, "Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist." Source: Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O'Donnell, Propaganda And Persuasion, 4th edition, 2006. (so, it doesn't really say evil intent)

[J’raxis 270145]

I've heard Tom Paine described as the propagandist of the American revolution. Much of what he wrote is definitely one-sided and intended to galvanize people into action, but I don't consider it to be a bad nor under-handed way of promoting the revolution.

I played Tom Paine on a Veritas Radio series in Nashua a few years back. It was fascinating researching him to prepare for the part.

You should also read The Grand Incendiary, A Biography of Samuel Adams - talk about incitement!

We watched a video earlier today (actually Sunday) at the Conspiracy Cafe down in Cambridge about propaganda & PR - Part 3 of the BBC 4 part series called The Century of the Self. The link to a portion of Part 2 is below in this thread.

I'll find the link to the page about the types of communications. I think what you're saying J'r is that all "persuasion" is not bad, whereas, I think all "propaganda" is bad (evil intent), by definition, but I'll look that up.

From Wikipedia, "Propaganda is the deliberate, systematic attempt to shape perceptions, manipulate cognitions, and direct behavior to achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist." Source: Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O'Donnell, Propaganda And Persuasion, 4th edition, 2006. (so, it doesn't really say evil intent)

Right. And it seems things as simple as a political campaign slogan or mass-produced lawn sign fits that definition of propaganda. The term has become a sort of dirty word because of what the Nazis, Soviets, and people like Bernays have done with it, but it has a broader meaning.

[jaqeboy]

2 carpooling meetup spots for going over to this movie in Keene:

Concord: 5 PM, Parking lot of Keene Medical Products, 66 Airport Road, Concord. (1 station wagon), call Jack @ 233-1058 to confirm

Amherst: 5:00 PM, Parking lot of Amherst Town Library, 14 Main Street, Amherst (1 van), Call Nancy White @ 801-5407 to confirm that you're planning to meet her there.

The movie starts at 6:30PM and there will be a circle discussion afterwards.

[Friday]

Back to topic: While researching the "What a Way to Go" movie, I ran across this related information: The Thirty Theses which lay out the foundation for understanding why civilization will and must collapse, and what role government (actually, imposed hierarchy in general) plays in it. It's absolutely fascinating reading.

Re: Thesis #7  This is awesome:

Yes, the Monkeysphere. That's the group of people who each of us, using our monkeyish brains, are able to conceptualize as people. If the monkey scientists are monkey right, it's physically impossible for this to be a number larger than 150. Most of us do not have room in our Monkeysphere for our friendly neighborhood Sanitation Worker. So, we don't think of him as a person. We think of him The Thing That Makes The Trash Go Away.

So apparently the population of AnarchoTown (location TBD somewhere in New Hampshire) will ideally need to be capped at 150.

[jaqeboy]

So, the left-wing global warming parade of pinko commie idiots to 'save the whales!' brigade carpooled over to Antioch in Keene to see this video. ~70 in attendance. It gave a review of one man's progress in discovering and being tormented by all the ills he is learning that we are suffering from and hints at what to do - basically, don't expect the government to fix things (they can't), get involved in community-building, healthy food growing and pick an issue and get active in it. A couple of people bought the video to view it again, as it was dense with information.

Some familiar faces at the viewing from the Alt. energy crowd, 911 Truth groups, peace and justice milieu. Dinner and the drive back with the other pinko Porcupines was fun and enlightening.

[error]

That doesn't sound very left-wing pinko commie to me.

[Russell Kanning]

So apparently the population of AnarchoTown (location TBD somewhere in New Hampshire) will ideally need to be capped at 150.

there could be more, but we wouldn't know their names.
... or there could be a split and 2 towns created.

This is also why I don't cry when this forum community splits and the whole movement keeps getting bigger.