Might God damn America?

[JohninRI]

Hello Dalebert,

Quote from: Caleb on March 24, 2008, 05:25 PM NHFT
I don't think collectivist is even close to describing him.

Fair enough, but the thread itself still sounds awfully collectivist. Does anyone care to address that? - i.e. the damning of "America" as opposed to individuals who have "sinned". Sheesh, it's like pulling teeth trying to stay on topic here. Smiley

I believe that God employs collectivism.  Are we not all responsible for the state our country is in?  Didn't we allow the United States of America to become the little dragon spoken of in Revelations who makes the whole world bow down to the anti-christ.  Isn't it us who have allowed the stage to be set for receiving the mark of the beast?  I didn't spill my blood fighting against it.  I'm partly responsible, so yes, the Untied States of America is due for a comeuppance as is every other nation on earth.  Maybe that is why there are so many natural disasters.  However, we could always repent and pray for forgiveness.

[dalebert]

OK, your god is collectivist. Just wanted to get that str8. I'll leave this thread be now.

As Rob often says,

Enjoy!

[JohninRI]

Hello Free Libertarian,

If one must believe Jesus is a savior to get into heaven, where are all those souls that died before Jesus time?  I mean those "good people" who died prior to Jesus time.
Do they get a special exemption to get into heaven?  Also what about all those people who by uh "accident of birth" are ignorant of Jesus...do they go to hell? ...even if they have lead good lives by Christian standards?

Both arguments for re-incarnation and against one chance at life!

Is heaven an exclusive club, where the entry dues must be paid here on earth? If other intelligent beings
exist are they in heaven, if so is heaven segregated by species? 
Also once in hell, is there any way out...say for good behavior?  Does hell have one master and how does one being keep an eye on all those bad people?  Electronic Microchips? Shock collars?  I suppose waterboarding wouldn't work...could actually be seen as a reward due to the climatic conditions believed to exist in hell.

If you believe in Pauline Christianity, then yes

As for microchips and shock collars, Those won't be necessary; What is going to happen is that those souls which do not measure up will simply be withheld from being reborn for quite a while.  This will allow mankind to continue in the education process without all of the distractions.  It's actually science which I believe is the only religion.

Concerning damning America...I don't think we need God to do that, man himself is doing a pretty good job of that. 

If you believe in any kind of devine plan then you will see that there is no damning of anything on this earth.  "Forgive them for they know not what they do."  There is only our ignorance of the details of the plan.

[grasshopper]

...been awile since Sunday School for me.  So I raise the following questions in the interest of discussion not to offend anyone personally.  

If one must believe Jesus is a savior to get into heaven, where are all those souls that died before Jesus time?  I mean those "good people" who died prior to Jesus time.
Do they get a special exemption to get into heaven?  Also what about all those people who by uh "accident of birth" are ignorant of Jesus...do they go to hell? ...even if they have lead good lives by Christian standards?

 Is heaven an exclusive club, where the entry dues must be paid here on earth? If other intelligent beings
exist are they in heaven, if so is heaven segregated by species?  
Also once in hell, is there any way out...say for good behavior?  Does hell have one master and how does one being keep an eye on all those bad people?  Electronic Microchips? Shock collars?  I suppose waterboarding wouldn't work...could actually be seen as a reward due to the climatic conditions believed to exist in hell.

Concerning damning America...I don't think we need God to do that, man himself is doing a pretty good job of that.  

ed's note: Ok, the people that dies before jesus time?  They are "resting with Abraham" until judgement.  Jesus saved them because they tried to live the commandments.  They will have the same mercy as I get.
  Ok, about children that die before they sin?  Jesus wants us to be childlike to him and God.  I believe that means, trusting fully in him for everything.  If a child dies before he sins does he get destroied?  No way, My God doesn't hate us, he hates sin.  Those children are going to be whole and healthy in Gods heavin (or whatever he calls his realm without sin).  As I wrote, I paid to kill my daughter of 3 months in the woumb.  She is resting with Abraham until judgement.  I know I'm forgiven from God himself through Jesus.  I can feel it!
  Is heavin an exclusive club?  Nope, we are all invited, all we have to do is believe in Jesus's resurection and that we have already been resurected through him, everyone else will be judged worthy or unworthy, no acceptions.  Will my Father be tormented for ever?  I believe not because my Dad didn't do anything to deserve that punishment.  Will he just be destroied?  Like he never existed?  Probrably.  Is it sad?  Yes it is. Now Sadam, Udae and Kusae Husane, will they be tormented?  I think so but I am not God.  Eternal separation from God is nothing I want to go through for ever... ect.ect....
 Now, hell or whatever God has created for the seperation of "his people that rebelled against him".  I know I don't want to go there for a day or until he destroys it.
  Now, if God placed soles in other spicies, I don't know.  I know he mentioned that Lions ill lay down with Lambs.  I believe we will have more than smaller spicies but if there are "Martians" that he has raised up to sentience, I want to hang out with them also!  Should be a cool, few eons to listen to tales from their perspective, ya think?   Ok, those who are ignorant of Jesus,  or a creator?  Hoew can't somebody not look around and see Gods greatness.  How can somebody not wonder how this "around us" was made, how when we cut ourselves, we heal, when we do something good, we feel great and when we know we do something bad, we feel guilt, then anger for others telling us so up to pride.  What says you?

[kola]

I believe in a Creator, Great Spirit, The Great Mystery.

I never understood the God, Jesus and the biblical stuff. It sure sounds as if God  was quite mean. ie burning in hell, and causing floods, crucifying Jesus etc etc.

In my NA Inidian beliefs there is none of that.

Kola

[JohninRI]

Hi Kola,

In my opinion American Indians are right up there with the greatest of civilizations.  To me, the Scriptures are meant to be taken in the same vain as the old Indian stories of the great spirit   They show truths about ourselves, but are meant to be taken with a grain of salt and much contemplation.  Another thing they do is show us that there are patterns and circles of life which repeat and repeat in smaller and larger circles or spirals.

[Pat K]

I got a phone call today.

Me= hello
God= this god speaking.
me =yeah right pal.
God=I am that I am.
Me=yeah you, me and Popeye too.
God= sigh, no one ever believes me.
Me=well I know you don't even exist.
God=I know that.
Me =so get to the point.
God=I have a message for you to deliver to
the NH underground folk.
Me= Is this the Feds fucking around.
God= hey blasphemy's one thing but calling
me a fed is really low.
Me= sigh...
God= so my message
Me= wait wait I ain't delivering no message from some
telephone spammer.
God= Look I am God is it so much to ask.
Me=I told you you don't exist, for God you got a crappy memory.
God=Well for the folks who think I do exist, could you tell them some thing.
Me= Why don't you tell them your self, I mean you should be able to get their phone numbers and call them.By the way why are you using the phone.
God=I scare people when I'M just a loud voice from no were. I also don't like to spend time on the phone.
Me= well ya would not scare me I would just think it was cigg withdrawal.
God= I know, But I work in mysterious ways.
Me=fine I will humor you, what should I tell them.
God=I stopped the whole damming thing a long time ago.
Me= o-k I will tell them good bye
God= Thats not all.
Me= Oh Jesus Christ!! what else
God= I will ignore the Jesus thing.
Me = sigh...
God= As I was saying, I stopped the whole damming thing,
it wasn't working out. First of all the whole flame and heat thing
costs big bucks and that fucker Lucifer wont chip in.Also I learned
people are their own worst punishments.
Me= really, even say Dick Cheney?
God= Well I admit it is fun stopping his heart every now and then.
But as a general rule for most folk they are their own worst punishment.
Me= O-k got it, I will tell them.
God=Also the whole
Me= Wait a fucking minute, there's more? what am I the Fucking
holy secretary?
God= Not hardly, relax just a little more.
Me= Fine
God= As I was saying that whole praying thing, STOP IT JUST STOP IT
Me= hey no need to yell.
God= Sorry about that. Any way they can all fix any problems that are fixable themselves. It is very annoying and I got other stuff to do.
Me= O-K got it, but they wont listen ya know.
God= What do you care? You know I don't exist and maybe one or two
will get it. I have learned patience over the millenniums one or two is good
enough for me. 3 would be a miracle  wouldn't that be something to be
part of a miracle?
Me= I don't even Believe...
God= I know I know besides your idea of a miracle would be if I took
all the calories out of Beer but left all the alcohol and taste.
Me= hey how did you know that?

Then there was just a ring tone. So there I told ya's.
 

[JohninRI]

I got a phone call today.

Me= hello
God= this god speaking.
me =yeah right pal.
God=I am that I am.
Me=yeah you, me and Popeye too.
God= sigh, no one ever believes me.
Me=well I know you don't even exist.
God=I know that.
Me =so get to the point.
God=I have a message for you to deliver to
the NH underground folk.
Me= Is this the Feds fucking around.
God= hey blasphemy's one thing but calling
me a fed is really low.
Me= sigh...
God= so my message
Me= wait wait I ain't delivering no message from some
telephone spammer.
God= Look I am God is it so much to ask.
Me=I told you you don't exist, for God you got a crappy memory.
God=Well for the folks who think I do exist, could you tell them some thing.
Me= Why don't you tell them your self, I mean you should be able to get their phone numbers and call them.By the way why are you using the phone.
God=I scare people when I'M just a loud voice from no were. I also don't like to spend time on the phone.
Me= well ya would not scare me I would just think it was cigg withdrawal.
God= I know, But I work in mysterious ways.
Me=fine I will humor you, what should I tell them.
God=I stopped the whole damming thing a long time ago.
Me= o-k I will tell them good bye
God= Thats not all.
Me= Oh Jesus Christ!! what else
God= I will ignore the Jesus thing.
Me = sigh...
God= As I was saying, I stopped the whole damming thing,
it wasn't working out. First of all the whole flame and heat thing
costs big bucks and that fucker Lucifer wont chip in.Also I learned
people are their own worst punishments.
Me= really, even say Dick Cheney?
God= Well I admit it is fun stopping his heart every now and then.
But as a general rule for most folk they are their own worst punishment.
Me= O-k got it, I will tell them.
God=Also the whole
Me= Wait a fucking minute, there's more? what am I the Fucking
holy secretary?
God= Not hardly, relax just a little more.
Me= Fine
God= As I was saying that whole praying thing, STOP IT JUST STOP IT
Me= hey no need to yell.
God= Sorry about that. Any way they can all fix any problems that are fixable themselves. It is very annoying and I got other stuff to do.
Me= O-K got it, but they wont listen ya know.
God= What do you care? You know I don't exist and maybe one or two
will get it. I have learned patience over the millenniums one or two is good
enough for me. 3 would be a miracle  wouldn't that be something to be
part of a miracle?
Me= I don't even Believe...
God= I know I know besides your idea of a miracle would be if I took
all the calories out of Beer but left all the alcohol and taste.
Me= hey how did you know that?

Then there was just a ring tone. So there I told ya's.

And the moral of the story is?

[Raineyrocks]

Me= I don't even Believe...
God= I know I know besides your idea of a miracle would be if I took
all the calories out of Beer but left all the alcohol and taste.
Me= hey how did you know that?

I'm pretty sure that is the moral of the story, right Pat?

[JohninRI]

I'm a bourbon man with diabetes and let me tell you;  beer, no, but bourbon, now you got my attention!!!!!

[grasshopper]

  Jesus's first miricle?  Turning water to wine!

[Caleb]

I think you guys are reading more into this than was there. He was quoting Jefferson. I took his comments broadly, not specifically. In other words, "Be careful what you do, there might be some cosmic balancing power." Not as some precision theology statement.

[JohninRI]

Caleb,

I think I just hijacked the thread for my own purposes.  I know that the initial comments were innocent and I used them to get things started.  But I did have a good time.  My bad.

John

[watershed]

If a Great flood comes and destroys us, what would matter if it were believed to be Gods wrath or Global Warming or Gov. Sloth?  We'll still have a huge mess to clean up and  survival in this world, will be paramount. Idle hands are the work of the Devil. Be Vigilant and optimistic... there is always hope even with  atheists.   


Stories in religion seem to have a common message of blind faith...this can be very good but absolute blindness in the soul will corrupt.

Never in history has all of man been totally erased, but groups have. We must all be confident and secure when that flood comes, so we can count the dead and rebuild. Have faith in ourselves and that resiliency will live on.        

[kola]

Are you sure it is going be be a flood?

Kola