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"Let them march all they want, as long as they pay their taxes."  --Alexander Haig

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Author Topic: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?  (Read 22419 times)

highline

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2008, 07:51 AM NHFT »

Build rapport...make him feel like he's not a bad guy?  Whatever the hell for?  We don't need anything from them.  They need something from us.  That's why they're smoozing the copwatch guys.

Hi Kat.

From someone who hears things from the inside of the NH law enforcement community - I can tell you that the Keene PD is a very respected law enforcement agency in our state.  I have also heard nothing but good things about the police chief.  An agency is only as good as the person at the top... and from everything I have ever heard Chief Walker sounds like a pretty decent guy.

I really think that the LT is holding out an olive branch to the liberty community.  I would encourage you to not be as suspect of his motives...  and I would take him up on his kind offer.  I think that for many of you who have a general distrust of law enforcement that it would be a good experience.  If nothing else you would learn good things and would be able to "teach", if you will, the officers you meet the general ideas of liberty.

It is indeed a hard concept for anyone to grasp at first.  It takes time to realize the sad state of affairs that our country has been exposed to....   :o
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 07:54 AM NHFT by highline »
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kola

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2008, 08:28 AM NHFT »

Build rapport...make him feel like he's not a bad guy?  Whatever the hell for?  We don't need anything from them.  They need something from us.  That's why they're smoozing the copwatch guys.

agreed.

they are definitely smoozing.

in fact, the more I think about it, the more I think its a bad idea.

kola
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 08:30 AM NHFT by kola »
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2008, 08:39 AM NHFT »

I don't know of anything in particular the Keene police do that is corrupt or out of the norm.  From all I've seen they ARE better than the other police around the state.  When I say that they're not the good guys, it is the nature of their job, not the particular individuals I'm talking about.  Every day they put people behind bars for victimless "crimes".  Saying that they're just "doing their jobs" does not absolve them of the responsibility that they've used those guns to lock innocent people up.  The Keene police are particularly bad about throwing people in jail for things like expired tags, driving with suspended license.  I know a pregnant lady they tossed in jail for driving with a suspended license.  She wasn't hurting anyone, yet there she was behind bars.
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highline

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2008, 08:47 AM NHFT »

I don't know of anything in particular the Keene police do that is corrupt or out of the norm.  From all I've seen they ARE better than the other police around the state.  When I say that they're not the good guys, it is the nature of their job, not the particular individuals I'm talking about.  Every day they put people behind bars for victimless "crimes".  Saying that they're just "doing their jobs" does not absolve them of the responsibility that they've used those guns to lock innocent people up.  The Keene police are particularly bad about throwing people in jail for things like expired tags, driving with suspended license.  I know a pregnant lady they tossed in jail for driving with a suspended license.  She wasn't hurting anyone, yet there she was behind bars.

Well I absolutely respect your opinion, but, why pass up an opportunity to learn how the system works from within?

Learning can never be anything but positive. Even if you vehemently hate the experience I am willing to bet you would have learned something.....
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2008, 08:53 AM NHFT »

I've been in too many cop cars already.

Let me give you another example, and why I'll never call 911.

My husband was having an asthma attack, got a bloody nose and passed out.  I freaked out and tried to get an ambulance by dialing 911.  They took so long on the phone, I hung up and helped him myself.  Well, three police cars showed up and insisted on seeing him.  When they came in, they carefully scanned the house for illegal items, drugs or whatever.  I was so mad, I vowed never to call 911 again.  They were not there to help.  They were only there to hurt us.
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Kat Kanning

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2008, 08:53 AM NHFT »

That was the Keene police, BTW.
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ancapagency

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2008, 10:01 AM NHFT »

Build rapport...make him feel like he's not a bad guy?  Whatever the hell for?  We don't need anything from them.  They need something from us.  That's why they're smoozing the copwatch guys.

I understand that.  And remember--I said that I didn't mean you shouldn't raise hell if you see him doing something particularly heinous.  But my point is that it would be more productive to convert this guy, than to immediately polarize him for all time against us.  He may presently be merely an unthinking dupe.  Immediately treating him as a nazi thug because he's a cop rather than getting to know him as an individual may turn him into a really nasty nazi thug.

The idea is that by letting him see that WE aren't immediately on that attack, and trying to treat him as just one of a group of faceless thugs, we help him see US as good guys.  And if he sees us as good guys, then perhaps he won't be so quick to judge all pro-Liberty folks as annoying criminal whack-jobs.  And thus, he may find it more easy to start changing his mind about some things--and perhaps some day we have a guy who tips us off before the cops come busting in to arrest us for being dissidents.  Or maybe we end up with a guy who openly and publicly refuses to follow an immoral order--such as going door to door to confiscate guns, or to arrest that anti-war protester for sitting there peacefully with a sign.

It may be that this guy is already so far gone that he is for all time an enemy of freedom.  But, in this particular situation, we may be able to slowly win him over--and everyone we take from the enemy's camp is a win for us. 

I'm not saying Copwatch should spend all its time "embedded" with the cops, nor am I saying we shouldn't condemn the evils we see the cops committing.  I'm just saying that since we want them to treat us as individuals, and fairly and justly, we ought to do the same. 

It's largely a matter of tactics and strategy.  Tactically, we stand a better chance of winning this guy over via the methods I mentioned, than by immediately cornering him with tough questions and going out of our way to call him a thug.  And strategically, winning over a few guys within the department, we stand a better chance of making the Keene PD a "kinder, gentler" department in the short term, and of winning the whole struggle in the long term.
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FTL_Ian

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2008, 11:06 AM NHFT »

This sounds like fun. 
  • I wonder how they deal with the volume of laws that exist. 
  • Do they read and remember them all? 
  • I wonder how they feel about people they arrest. 
  • Have their friends or relatives ever disobeyed a law? 
  • Would they arrest their mother? 
  • Would they ever break a law?
  • Have they ever broken a law? 
  • Did they ever arrest themselves? 
  • Do they have to be the witness and the prosecution like the state police do?

If zaphar declines, it might be interesting for you to attend, Lauren.  It could be a news item of it's own:

"Lauren Canario VOLUNTARILY enters a police car!"
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mackler

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2008, 11:32 AM NHFT »

My suggestion would be to lay off the hard questions at the beginning. 

Take the opportunity to build rapport with this guy--you want him to begin to see you as a good guy--not to put him on the defensive immediately, allowing him to cast you (in his mind) as a "bad guy."

I agree.  You can always burn a bridge when you want to, but you'll only get one chance at that.  Why not make a good-faith effort to do some bridge-building before declaring them a lost cause?  It would be more useful if your first ride wasn't your last.

As far as questions to ask, a lot of the questions people are posting I would like to hear the answer to, but they don't seem to take particular advantage of being on duty, in the car, on the beat with officers.  These questions could just as easily be asked during an interview in an office.  The most useful questions, in contrast, would be asked in response to the particulars of what is happening at the moment:  "why are we pulling this driver over?  How typical is it to pull someone over for that?  Are you giving him a ticket?  Arresting?  Is that typical?  What crimes are you observing that we're not responding to?"  Questions like that would more take advantage of the opportunity that's being offered.

As for the the super-provocative questions such as "Is your wife African-American?  Why not?  Are you racist?"  Asking questions like that, IMHO, would just waste the chance you're getting to look inside the PD's operations, and make a bad impression not only with the officers but with many viewers.
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kola

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2008, 12:38 PM NHFT »

no one is going to "win the cops over".

that is a fantasy.

any new cop that has morals and common sense will soon realize what a crock of shit LE is and he/she wil quit a get a real job. Thats pretty rare because the people who are attracted to LE work are powertrippers and authority seekers. They WANT that position and lets face it, they have now become above the law.

Kola

 
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Beth221

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2008, 12:50 PM NHFT »

Kola, is that your opinion on every single cop on earth?  Or just certain ones?

Do you think cops can reform, see the light?  Or work from within the system?

I love Barry Cooper, he is my favorite, x cop, and I support cops who belong to LEAP.

I have a feeling you are looking all cops, like people look at pit bulls, they all are mean, bite, and will kill babies.  When in fact, pit bulls are great family dogs.

(sorry to compare the good cops to dogs, lol, I refrained from using pigs!)

I just think you have to give human beings a chance.  Its like saying you hate all dentists because they all hurt, all lawyers lie, all cops are bad, all politicians  are evil, no matter what the believe, or what party they belong to.  Open your mind.  Some will change, and some wont, those you can hate, lol.



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Caleb

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2008, 12:50 PM NHFT »

Maxfield is fair-minded. He truly believes that he is the vanguard holding the forces of evil in check to protect the defenseless citizens of his watch. He doesn't seem to be in any hurry to hurt people for the sake of hurting them.
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ReverendRyan

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2008, 12:55 PM NHFT »

If zaphar declines, it might be interesting for you to attend, Lauren.  It could be a news item of it's own:

"Lauren Canario VOLUNTARILY enters a police car!"

I WANNA SEE THAT HEADLINE!
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kola

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2008, 01:16 PM NHFT »

Kola, is that your opinion on every single cop on earth?  Or just certain ones?

Do you think cops can reform, see the light?  Or work from within the system?

I love Barry Cooper, he is my favorite, x cop, and I support cops who belong to LEAP.

I have a feeling you are looking all cops, like people look at pit bulls, they all are mean, bite, and will kill babies.  When in fact, pit bulls are great family dogs.

(sorry to compare the good cops to dogs, lol, I refrained from using pigs!)

I just think you have to give human beings a chance.  Its like saying you hate all dentists because they all hurt, all lawyers lie, all cops are bad, all politicians  are evil, no matter what the believe, or what party they belong to.  Open your mind.  Some will change, and some wont, those you can hate, lol.



The LEO system is designed in such way that even a good person cannot be a good cop. Hows that?

And if he continues in the sytem he is voluntarily participating in something that is bad. He has a choice to leave yet he stays. Although he or she may have wanted to be a cop to "save lives and keep the streets safe" they should inherently know (after working inthe field  briefly) that they really do not do anything close to that.

The only good cop I know of is retired Lt. Jack McLamb. He had the guts to speak out and do what was right. And that was get out of LE and tell others what REALLY is going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQl0_OSaJs

Kola
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ReverendRyan

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Re: Copwatch Invited for Ride-Along - Got Questions for a Keene Police Lt.?
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2008, 01:32 PM NHFT »

All "good cops" leaving the force would leave you with a police force that:

  • Has no internal resistance to gross human rights violations.
  • Confiscates property at whim to fund itself.
  • Confiscates firearms at will to consolidate power.
  • Imprisons any dissenters, internal or external.

This is not a model prone to its own collapse, it's self-perpetuating.

Working for any tax-funded agency is immoral in my eyes, but "good cops" do the dirty work of preventing, or at least slowing, the expansion of the police state.
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