Is anarchism/minarchism/anarocapitalism hostile towards libertarianism?

[Rodinia]

Or is it just that Kinsella guy?  Thoughts?
FYI, I don't personally feel any hostility from anarchists
http://nhseacoastliberty.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/stephen-kinsella-needs-to-take-a-nap/

[AntonLee]

Mr. Kinsella is essentially saying that if someone refuses to embrace "anarcho-capitalism" then they are, by definition, a statist.

Statism: The practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy.

Statist:  A person who supports the practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy

Anarcho-capitalism (a form of market anarchism or individualist anarchism[1]) advocates the elimination of the state;

I think minarchists should have all the government their heart desires. . . AND. IT . SHOULD. LEAVE. ME. THE. BLEEP. ALONE.

(and yes, that includes the minarchist government not being able to extract money from me)

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I will work with anybody working for liberty. I reject aggression. If a statist is working for liberty on a specific issue, I'm their buddy. If a libertarian or an anarchist is advocating aggression, they're not my buddy.

Labels mean very little in the long run.

[thinkliberty]

Minarchists advocate mandatory taxation for national defense, roads, police, etc.

In order to have mandatory taxation you must have a militant police force to collect them. Minarchist advocate a violent society so I am against them.

[dalebert]

Was this thread inspired by this...

The Top 10 Causes of Minarchism

#10



#9


... or is that just me being narcissist? BTW, I'm not motivated by hostility, though there is a certain amount of frustration when someone claims to love liberty so much and can't seem to let go of the one thing that is keeping them from it-- their statism. And minarchists are doing more damage than socialists in some ways because socialist don't necessarily associate liberty with statism or claim that statism is necessary for liberty, which is absolutely ass-backwards. Socialists arguably don't do as much to empower the state either. The state doesn't control us with the threat of violence nearly so much as they keep everyone deluded and in near 100% compliance via their aura of legitimacy. It's that aura of legitimacy that allows them to get away with violence in the light of day with hardly any repercussions. Minarchists feed into that aura of legitimacy saying out of one side of their mouths that states are inefficient (which isn't the problem) and evil (which is true) but that they're "necessary" for liberty.

So have no doubt, minarchists unwittingly hold a crucial role in keeping us enslaved. I know libertarians hate conflict and we all just want to have a group hug, but that's not going to get us free. We need to have some civil discussion about what we're doing wrong so far because the state just keeps growing and growing.

[Russell Kanning]

some people would say they are all libertarianism ... others not

ask lloyd what libertarianism is and then decide from there

[Kat Kanning]

I'd much rather be surrounded by minarchists than statists.

[KBCraig]

Minarchists advocate mandatory taxation for national defense, roads, police, etc.

Which minarchists are those, exactly?

[thinkliberty]

Minarchists advocate mandatory taxation for national defense, roads, police, etc.

Which minarchists are those, exactly?

See wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

"minarchists of the Constitutionalist type advocate the provision of some essential common infrastructure such as roads and currency. Some Chicago school economists, such as Milton Friedman,[35] support central banks, school vouchers, health savings accounts, the negative income tax, the land value tax, hospitals, and social security in such essential infrastructure."

"some argue that voluntary donations are not enough to support a government to prevent a foreign invasion. The mere existence of government, irrespective of how it is funded, undermines one's self-ownership, since to govern is to control. Minarchists, however, depart here from anarcho-capitalists in philosophical beliefs, believing that the government should indeed be the sole arbiter of force in law and military matters,"

"Some minarchists state that human beings naturally gravitate towards leaders, hence making anarchism untenable and not viable. As such, they believe that the existence of government is inevitable, and people should only be concerned with limiting the size and scope of the state, rather than opposing its existence."

"A central tenet of minarchism consists of the idea that the minarchist government must initiate violence to prevent the development of competing governments."

[AntonLee]

I am critical of some minarchists.  I only become critical of their end vision but not of their spirit in the meantime.  Many minarchists in the FSP movement have done plenty more than I have and I feel thankful for them around.  I also understand that it took someone to push me towards what I knew was right all along but kept buried in my mind.

I agree with Kat that I would rather be surrounded by minarchists than full statists.  If we're talking in a world of anarchists/voluntaryists and minarchists. . .they're the last line keeping the monopoly on violence active.

[KBCraig]

Minarchists advocate mandatory taxation for national defense, roads, police, etc.

Which minarchists are those, exactly?

See wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism

"minarchists of the Constitutionalist type advocate the provision of some essential common infrastructure such as roads and currency. Some Chicago school economists, such as Milton Friedman,[35] support central banks, school vouchers, health savings accounts, the negative income tax, the land value tax, hospitals, and social security in such essential infrastructure."

"some argue that voluntary donations are not enough to support a government to prevent a foreign invasion. The mere existence of government, irrespective of how it is funded, undermines one's self-ownership, since to govern is to control. Minarchists, however, depart here from anarcho-capitalists in philosophical beliefs, believing that the government should indeed be the sole arbiter of force in law and military matters,"

"Some minarchists state that human beings naturally gravitate towards leaders, hence making anarchism untenable and not viable. As such, they believe that the existence of government is inevitable, and people should only be concerned with limiting the size and scope of the state, rather than opposing its existence."

"A central tenet of minarchism consists of the idea that the minarchist government must initiate violence to prevent the development of competing governments."

I love wikipedia, but it's hardly authoritative. Especially when the portion you cited says, "some this..." and "some that...", then concludes that violence and force is a "central tenet".

[thinkliberty]

Wikipedia is not the last word, but it is a semi general consensus. If you have a problem with the article then you can edit it to make it better or fix anything that is not accurate.

[PattyLee loves dogs]

Why don't we see whether we can stop government from going to 100% totalitarian first? Even the most wishy-washy minarchist is still 100% with the ancaps on most any practical issue today.

Heck, King George the Third would be a radical minarchist by today's standards 

...and more generally, most people, even big-government supporters, have some issue where we agree with them. Why not make a practice of figuring out what each person's pro-liberty issue is, and supporting them?

(Or we can continue with the present policy of talking to people until we find out the one issue where we don't agree, then talking to them about nothing else until they defenestrate us. That's worked so well for libertarians since 1971  )

[violence]

Minarchists advocate mandatory taxation for national defense, roads, police, etc.

In order to have mandatory taxation you must have a militant police force to collect them. Minarchist advocate a violent society so I am against them.

what about mandatory taxes on things like trade? tariffs and the like?

[violence]

Was this thread inspired by this...

in regards to the first cartoon, what about a volunteer force that would be assembled to a conflict at specific times, and not a standing army?