420 protests and the medical marijuana override

[dalebert]

No.  I am not making a jest.  Just trying to make a serious point in a more humorous manner.

I'm essentially seeing some people acting like jerks and hiding being principles.  They are acting like rigid fanatics who would rather spend all their time sniping at other people.  They are right and they will not yield one inch. 

Talk about peace.  Talk about creating a better more peaceful society yet you will not do some of the basic simple things required to make peace with people you know.   Talk about rising above what's come before and yet you act like a bunch of fucking children.   

Both sides are entrenched and "hiding behind principles". We don't have to agree to have peace. We don't have to be friends to have peace. We just have to stop fighting each other. You can curse at the heavens that the planets don't circle the sun the way you want them to but your rage isn't going to change their orbit. It's just feeding back into your own frustration. At some point we have to have the wisdom to let go of what (or whom) we can't control or we're just tormenting ourselves. There's not much new to be said. I'm sure some future event will spark yet another debate and maybe new experiences will give people something new to think about and maybe some people will eventually change their points of view, but this horse has been beaten to death. After a while it quickly becomes obvious that the debate is just more of the same points being repeated with increasing fervor. It's going nowhere. It's time to let go of it. I, for one, have better things to devote my attention to and I'm sure you and Matt do as well.

[FTL_Ian]

It's not my event.

You have been suggesting that people do this type of thing for many years, and as soon as a few people started doing it, you stepped in to promote it.

Of course I promoted this event- I believe in it.  Same as how I have promoted you and your efforts over the years.

Even if I agreed with what you are trying to do in this case, I'd still not step in and announce anything to these people.  It's not my place.  I'm not hijacking their event.  You come try to persuade them, or send one of these invisible angry sick people out to do it.  Maybe they'll come out and see that this isn't a problem, toke up, mellow out, and get a weed connection for their efforts.

[dalebert]

I don't suppose there is a way to ignore just one thread, is there?

[Kat Kanning]

I was working on that with the latest forum "upgrade" but it didn't work out.

[Fluff and Stuff]

I don't suppose there is a way to ignore just one thread, is there?

Yes.  Don't go to the thread.  It is a feature already built into the forum.

[Friday]

Russell, has this thread become eligible for Endless Debate and Whining yet? 

I would certainly say so.  It's getting downright ugly.  When I get out of work, I'm going to see if I've got mod access to move this, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Oh nice, I got smited for this.  Guess someone strongly disagrees that ongoing namecalling and obscenities belong in the Endless Debate and Whining section.     And FYI, I'm not the one who moved the thread.

[Giggan]

I don't suppose there is a way to ignore just one thread, is there?

Yes.  Don't go to the thread.  It is a feature already built into the forum.

It was hilarious reading that in my head in a "matter of fact" voice.

[dalebert]

Yes.  Don't go to the thread.  It is a feature already built into the forum.

That assumes some kind of self-control and willpower.

[MaineShark]

There is virtually zero risk of federal raids on the non-profit entities that would dispense marijuana if this bill passes, and virtually zero risk of raids on the patients.

And virtually zero risk of arrest if patients use marijuana illegally, with any level of common sense, as well.

Virtually zero, versus virtually zero.  Doesn't sound like much of a gain.  I'll liken it to the lottery.  I've been told that, "if you don't play, you can't win," which is not true: I could find the winning ticket on the ground, and still win.  The odds of that are virtually zero.  But the odds of winning if I do buy a ticket are also virtually zero.  So it's a lateral move, and I save a dollar.

This bill is a horrible compromise that will achieve almost nothing.  We spoke at Seacoast Porcs many months ago, and you said as much about their proposed changes.  Now that those changes are no longer proposed, but are actually amended to the bill, I don't see how that makes them any less horrible than they were when we spoke at that time.  I'd be happy to be enlightened on that note, if you feel that there's something I'm missing which changes the nature of those amendments.

I agree that it would be great to get something passed.  It would attract attention from activists, nationwide, and certainly gain some movers.  But I've heard from folks who are seriously considering moving because of the events in Keene and Manchester, so that doesn't seem to be a reason to support one or the other.

It would be great if patients had zero risk of arrest for using medical marijuana.  But this bill can't give them that.  As seen in Cassidy's indecent exposure arrest in Keene, even if the law is quite clear, and you aren't even vaguely violating it in any way, you still don't have zero risk of arrest, because some jackboot can just chain you up and drag you away, anyway.

It seems like your bill has a good chance of passing.  On the other hand, it seems like there are long odds against these park protests achieving the total end to marijuana prohibition that I'm sure many (most?) of the protesters want.  However, it also seems that your bill will net only small gains for liberty, while the total end of marijuana prohibition would be a huge gain for liberty.  High probability of achieving a baby step, versus long odds of achieving something monumental.  And stopping these protests (assuming it could be done) would destroy the momentum that's been built, so it's not a matter of "just put this on pause for a few weeks, guys" - it's a one or the other situation.

I can understand why you might want to support a small gain that has a high probability of happening.  It would be a great first step on that road.  But it would be a long, albeit "smooth" road.  These other folks found a shortcut.  It's a very difficult road, and there's a good chance they'll fail to achieve major political change by it.  But if they do, it will save years of travel and unaccountably more suffering than your bill can ever manage to prevent.  That's a tough call for almost anyone who doesn't already have a dog in that fight.

You're trying to ease the suffering of a few dozens of individuals in NH, and taking a path which may achieve that quickly and with a high probability of success.  That's commendable.  They're trying to ease the suffering of many thousands of individuals here in NH (and millions elsewhere, eventually), and taking a path which is fraught with peril.  That's commendable, too.

I don't smoke anything, and I'm not likely to be at the Statehouse this month, so I guess I'll be abiding by your original requests, by default.  So, since I'm not in the running for "asshole of the year" as a result of that situation, I'd certainly appreciate it if you could take some time and reply to my post with thoughtfulness.  I think there are some valuable points in there, and would certainly appreciate it if you could read through them (with care to make certain that you are reading what I've presented, not colored by the strong emotions you obviously feel on this subject) and share your thoughts on the matter.

Joe

[AntonLee]

I wonder if these patients would step up for my use of cannabis.

Ian has been promoting the 420 event.  Some people promote good activism.

[Pat K]

Russell, has this thread become eligible for Endless Debate and Whining yet? 

I would certainly say so.  It's getting downright ugly.  When I get out of work, I'm going to see if I've got mod access to move this, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Oh nice, I got smited for this.  Guess someone strongly disagrees that ongoing namecalling and obscenities belong in the Endless Debate and Whining section.     And FYI, I'm not the one who moved the thread.

How do you know you were smited for this?
Maybe they did not like your avatar.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I have removed myself from the NH Compassion newsletters and groups.

Any organization headed by someone who is more concerned with publicity than results - or deluded enough to believe they're the same frakin' thing! - isn't aiming in a direction I want to be associated with.

Rocketman, I've left NH Compassion because of you. I hope you feel you're being effective.

[AntonLee]

oh you're just an asshole because you don't do as he says.  It's too bad, I really did support NHCompassion and NHCommonSense because of the work they were doing.  Then their leader decided to chastise his supporters. 

that's what you get I suppose.  You try and spread the word about doing things in the political system.  I get the feeling that its less and less about the sick people and more and more about the time spent by certain people on this project and what they perceive to be a hinderance to it. 

The sick people are more than welcome to come to 420 rallies and hang out with other sick people.  They're more than welcome to do the same as every other potsmoker and get their weed on the down low, and more than likely nothing will come of it.

[JJ]

Matt, why don't you make use of the good cop/bad cop scenario and let the politicians know that they are better off dealing with you than the folks who blatantly break the laws.  You can still go about it your way while decrying the smoke outs.  How can you not see the opportunity here, the state is being challenged on multiple fronts to defend this law.  Enforcement would burn through resources fast enough to make it unsustainable. 

I AM doing that.  Breaking some lemons so I can make lemonade.  The request on behalf of patients was to chill for a few weeks.  When somebody told me I might wind up with a backlash of 200-300 activists on the state house steps Oct. 28 if I suggested that, I decided to see what would actually happen if I told my "friends" what I thought their actions would accomplish. 

I am going to publicly distance myself from anybody who smokes pot in public to make political points.  First I want to privately distance myself from such people, and that's what this wonderful little flame war is all about.

You should be using this event to your advantage.  Ask the legislators what they think of smoke outs on the commons of their precious cities.  Tell them it is only a matter of time. 

Distancing myself from fringe anarchists IS using the event to my advantage.  You people have no credibility with the legislature or the general public, and you've made it clear that you don't want any, but yet some of you say you want to change the laws? 

You are not going to stop the marijuana activism with any amount of demands or ostracism.  If you think that it is being done overall to spite you specifically, you are far to vain for your own good.

I think it is being done with absolute disregard for strategy, and with disrespect for a native population that has its own ideas about how people ought to act in polite society. 

If this strategy had been employed in Mass last year, that ballot initiative would have failed with maybe 40% of the vote instead of passing with 65%.  For those who maybe think it passed because people smoke pot in Boston once a year, you should know that polls showed this as a 50-50 split a few weeks before the vote.  Then CSMP ran tv ads featuring police officers who said they were against legalization, but that they supported decrim.  Now Mass. has the best decrim law in the country.

Results, people...

Results?

Once a day in Keene we have a state free zone for a short while.  During that time all types of ill shit goes down.  People consume what they want, sell what they have to sell and have a good time.  Friends are made and the community becomes stronger.  All because the police have decided to leave us alone.

Don't you see that is exactly what we want.  Just to be left alone.  Fuck the laws and words on paper.  I don't want any law to legalize something anymore than I want a law to make it illegal. 

In one week we got the state to leave us alone at 420 at Central Square Keene.  That is really damn efficient. 


All that being said.  I want to thank you for your efforts.  I think the State House activism is valuable and can work well in concert with civil-dis and encourage you to push for decrim or more.  Peace

[AntonLee]

good point JJ.  Once a day, for a short while, and for who knows how long, there is freedom in Central Square and Veterans Memorial Park.