Grafton ... top story

[Russell Kanning]

While Barskey was right in that the cop didn't have permission, to many people I could easily imagine it coming off as being antagonistic.

minus too points for the misuse of the word two

but you are right ... many people would find the cops actions as antagonistic
if I would have had any idea that he was endangering my latest buff and wax job done on my vintage 94 subaru .... I would have had to open up a can of cardinal canning on him and given him a thorough toungelashing.

[Russell Kanning]

hopefully the cops and robbers will decide not to fine anyone

i heard that the owner will not bill the fire department if he receives no bill from them

[EthanLeeVita]

While Barskey was right in that the cop didn't have permission, to many people I could easily imagine it coming off as being antagonistic.

minus too points for the misuse of the word two

I wrote to correctly. I didn't mean to write too to refer to an excessive amount of people.

[Russell Kanning]

aha

[Sam A. Robrin]

A POLICEMAN'S PRAYER
COPYRIGHT F 2010 by Sam A. Robrin or whoever the hell it is who writes these things. Go ahead and use it, but if you make a little money on it, I want some!

LORD, when I don the badge and blue,
   Make strong my heart to keep
My goal to ever be like You--
   In charge of all the sheep.

With Thy tough oversight, ensure,
   When I confront the mob,
What matters most is kept secure:
   My ego and my job.

Guide my imagination
   So citizens will not
See through some regulation
   I've made up on the spot.

If I should take a life, O Lord,
   Grant full exoneration.
Add to my life the rich reward
   Of two weeks' paid vacation.

When I'm in court, Lord, keep the eyes
   Of judge and jurors closed,
So even my most bald-faced lies
   Will never be exposed.

Guide, too, the men who make the laws
   Each time they meet in session,
That there will always be just cause
   For my acts of aggression.

Keep the populace so dumb
   That they'll always agree
They must have my protection from
   A greater threat than me.

Exact upon them, from above,
   Thy judgment most severe.
I don't need their respect or love,
   But please ensure their fear.

[MaineShark]

Joe, Perhaps you can point folks to one of your videos as an example of how to do it correctly? Oh, and please also let us know how long it took to produce.

I don't have much interest in media work.  However, I believe there are a number of folks around who do.  Doesn't have to be fancy.  Something along the lines of what Ridley does would probably work just fine.

Are you offering to editorialize Mike's video?

I'd be happy to help out, if there were some way I could.

For example, when he says that it's a "class two fire danger day" (or whatever it was - I'm not going to re-watch it to get an exact quote), cut to someone explaining what that means.  Is "class two" high, low, or what?  I don't know.  Your audience doesn't know.

maybe the fire department should make a video explaining their technical terms .... why should we explain our terms and theirs?

Because you want to reach people?  Unless the goal is preaching to the choir.  You know they were being unreasonable.  I know they were being unreasonable.  A good portion of the folks on this forum know they were being unreasonable.  But how about some random neighbor of yours, who doesn't "get it," yet?  Babiarz says, "class two" in an ominous voice, so random neighbor guy, who's known Babiarz for years, thinks to himself, "class two must mean that it's extremely dangerous."

Now, imagine that, just after he said that, the video cut to someone explaining that "according to the State, class two is the second-lowest danger level.  It means that only very dry material will burn, and fires are very unlikely to spread, so he basically just told us that our fire is safe, not dangerous."

To someone on the borderline between liberty and tyranny, that might be enough to tip him over to our side.  Without that, all he knows is that someone he's known for years says that it's dangerous, so it must be.  Add in a little explanation, and now he knows that the guy said it's dangerous, then admitted that it really wasn't.

That's how the mainstream media operates.  Except they do it by offering explanations that are lies.  We can do the same thing, but offer up the truth.

Joe

[John]

Because you want to reach people?  Unless the goal is preaching to the choir.  You know they were being unreasonable.  I know they were being unreasonable.  A good portion of the folks on this forum know they were being unreasonable.  But how about some random neighbor of yours, who doesn't "get it," yet?  Babiarz says, "class two" in an ominous voice, so random neighbor guy, who's known Babiarz for years, thinks to himself, "class two must mean that it's extremely dangerous."

Now, imagine that, just after he said that, the video cut to someone explaining that "according to the State, class two is the second-lowest danger level.  It means that only very dry material will burn, and fires are very unlikely to spread, so he basically just told us that our fire is safe, not dangerous."

To someone on the borderline between liberty and tyranny, that might be enough to tip him over to our side.  Without that, all he knows is that someone he's known for years says that it's dangerous, so it must be.  Add in a little explanation, and now he knows that the guy said it's dangerous, then admitted that it really wasn't.

I'm thinking that you don't know our neighbors like I know our neighbors!   

BTW, One of them stopped by today and mentioned that he had heard about this story on the rock station.   

[Russell Kanning]

exactly

[MaineShark]

I'm thinking that you don't know our neighbors like I know our neighbors!   

BTW, One of them stopped by today and mentioned that he had heard about this story on the rock station.   

Well...

A) I've lived around here longer than most of y'all.  And around there, given that we have a place right in Danbury, so I probably do know your neighbors.

B) I was speaking in the general sense.  Lots of folks know Babiarz, all around NH.  And lots more folks who don't know him will assume he's in the right because he's the fire chief.  Demonstrating what he did, to them, won't convince all of them that Statism is wrong.  But it will help some of them on the way.  Presumably, that's the reason to actually go to the trouble of posting a video of the event?

Joe

[Mike Barskey]

I appreciate that Ron's and MaineShark's intentions are to help get the word of liberty to new people. At least, that's what it looks like their intentions are. But I don't think they realize what has happened here.

My friends and I were on my property, building my house, clearing brush, and preparing to cook hot dogs. We were minding our own business, hurting and threatening no one, and we were not being unsafe. We were not preparing any activism or civil disobedience, or trying to make a point, or trying to ruffle feathers, or trying to educate people about liberty. Suddenly, thugs started appearing and threatening us. We calmly told each thug that we were harming no one and would continue to live peacefully. We happened to have cameras because we are activists, and so we video recorded. I edited ~12 minutes of video down to ~7 and added some comments, because that is the amount and caliber of information I wanted to save and share about the incident and the people involved.

If Ron and MaineShark do understand the situation, they why are you preaching to the choir? I know that education is important, and that this video is ugly and the audio is not great and some speaking people are not onscreen at the time they're speaking and this video shows only my point of view and not theirs. It's not only all I did, it's all I could do at the time, and it's all I wanted to do. Why are you telling [/i]me[/i] how to be a better activist, when you could do the things you're suggesting. I don't believe in intellectual property, but just so everything is explicit and open: you have my permission to edit my video in any way you want and to share it via any means with any person. That means that you can edit out the part of the cop leaning on someone's personal property, you can edit out my talking and bad attitude, you can add definitions of "Class 2 Fire Day," you can pay for software to stabilize my shaky cinematography, you can sit at a desk and record yourself reporting this as news, etc.

And why are you spending time and energy telling me how to be even better activist, when you could be using that same time and energy to be telling "fellow libertarians" that you disagree with their use of force? You could be calling Babiarz and Merle and telling them you disapprove of their actions for reasons X and Y. Educating them would be a good idea, too, don't you think? Surely, MaineShark, since you've lived here longer than me and do know my neighbors, you have Babiarz's and Merle's phone numbers.

[Tom Sawyer]

I notice that they kept moving the goal post so to speak in regard to reasons you can't have a fire.

Approved fire ring is now too close to a building... which is goofy considering you were there tending the fire.

If you had requested a permit, the class 2 thing wouldn't have been a problem?

Basically it comes down to the fact that many people are terrified that others will do unsafe things regarding fires so we have to regulate everyone... Then even losing sight that the reason is safety... Mike is right that it is about control... or more importantly their feeling of loss of control.

Things I've witnessed...
Babiarz wants to assert control... driving around with his clipboard scowling at people for no apparent reason... Going on needlessly fretting about the "danger" a bonfire poses when everything was soaking wet and we had trouble keeping the fire burning.

The foam thing just makes him look like an idiot... Russell just sitting there trying to roast weinies was hilarious.   

[MaineShark]

I appreciate that Ron's and MaineShark's intentions are to help get the word of liberty to new people. At least, that's what it looks like their intentions are. But I don't think they realize what has happened here.

My friends and I were on my property, building my house, clearing brush, and preparing to cook hot dogs. We were minding our own business, hurting and threatening no one, and we were not being unsafe. We were not preparing any activism or civil disobedience, or trying to make a point, or trying to ruffle feathers, or trying to educate people about liberty. Suddenly, thugs started appearing and threatening us. We calmly told each thug that we were harming no one and would continue to live peacefully. We happened to have cameras because we are activists, and so we video recorded. I edited ~12 minutes of video down to ~7 and added some comments, because that is the amount and caliber of information I wanted to save and share about the incident and the people involved.

Oh, I understand.  This was clearly not planned activism.  I just think it could be used more effectively.

If Ron and MaineShark do understand the situation, they why are you preaching to the choir? I know that education is important, and that this video is ugly and the audio is not great and some speaking people are not onscreen at the time they're speaking and this video shows only my point of view and not theirs. It's not only all I did, it's all I could do at the time, and it's all I wanted to do. Why are you telling [/i]me[/i] how to be a better activist, when you could do the things you're suggesting. I don't believe in intellectual property, but just so everything is explicit and open: you have my permission to edit my video in any way you want and to share it via any means with any person. That means that you can edit out the part of the cop leaning on someone's personal property, you can edit out my talking and bad attitude, you can add definitions of "Class 2 Fire Day," you can pay for software to stabilize my shaky cinematography, you can sit at a desk and record yourself reporting this as news, etc.

I don't think you had a bad attitude.  Like I said, I wouldn't have been that polite to them.

If it was shot on film, I could certainly help edit it.  All this new-fangled computerized video editing stuff is beyond my skill set.  Maybe we need to find someone who does have that capability, and could help edit activist videos when there's some reason to.  I'd certainly be willing to volunteer to help such an endeavor, if possible.

And I don't think the video quality if a problem.  This is raw.  It was captured while it was happening.  It wasn't a staged event with a professional videographer.  It looks like what it is, and that's powerful.

I guess that's why I'd like to see it done up in a way that will reach a wider audience.  You caught something important.  I'd like to see the message get out to more than just folks who already agree with us.

And why are you spending time and energy telling me how to be even better activist, when you could be using that same time and energy to be telling "fellow libertarians" that you disagree with their use of force? You could be calling Babiarz and Merle and telling them you disapprove of their actions for reasons X and Y. Educating them would be a good idea, too, don't you think? Surely, MaineShark, since you've lived here longer than me and do know my neighbors, you have Babiarz's and Merle's phone numbers.

I do have Babiarz's.  Not Merle's - no real interest in talking to cops, as I typically consider them beyond the point where it's worth my effort to try and "redeem" them.

I'm not sure how much of a "fellow" Babiarz is, though.  Many here are libertarians.  He's a Libertarian.  He's a believer in politics and the State.  Kinder, gentler thugs are still thugs.  I doubt he can grasp why you didn't want to get a permit, and I'm nigh certain that everything he was complaining about was just window-dressing (as demonstrated by the fact that he's been there before and approved of the same fire pit).  He was upset that you didn't ask his permission, and was willing to attack you for daring to live your own life.

Given that, I don't know if he's reachable, but I'll certainly pigeonhole him if I see him around, though.  I'd certainly like to express my disappointment, and I'm not much for saying anything important on the phone.  I'm better at talking to folks in person, and if there's any chance I can get him to face the truth, that would be how I could do it.

Joe

[MaineShark]

I notice that they kept moving the goal post so to speak in regard to reasons you can't have a fire.

Approved fire ring is now too close to a building... which is goofy considering you were there tending the fire.

If you had requested a permit, the class 2 thing wouldn't have been a problem?

Basically it comes down to the fact that many people are terrified that others will do unsafe things regarding fires so we have to regulate everyone... Then even losing sight that the reason is safety... Mike is right that it is about control... or more importantly their feeling of loss of control.

Posted while I was typing.  But yes, that's the message I think is important here.  It's all about wanting you to ask their permission and make them feel important.

Joe

[Russell Kanning]

it was kinda funny

[Kat Kanning]

NonVerbals in Another Culture