Grafton ... top story

[Russell Kanning]

the system is geared to have some people live off of other people

[thinkliberty]

Give me your honest opinion. Do you really believe that fire was a threat to anyone? (remember what the fire marshal said, it's level 2. the only safer rating is when it's raining.)

I'm not in the fire biz and didn't see it, so I have no idea or opinion about the fire. This discussion is about the wiseness of one's actions, given the context (Or at least I'm suggesting that considering the context is a wise choice here).

You don't need to be in the fire business to have an opinion. I think you believe the fire was not dangerous, you just don't want to answer the question.

I witness the actions of chicken little and Barney Fife putting out a wienie fire. You witness someone disobeying "the system" that you believe in.

Re-watch the video so you can see the fire, then give me your option. Do you think that wienie fire is going to burn down Grafton?

[MaineShark]

You may have missed the point of the post, which was, it is "their" system or "the" system (that exists), not mine or yours. The system is geared to protect property, no matter how imperfect it is, so to flaunt it is to risk the impression of being uncaring about others' property.

Their system is "geared" for nothing other than consolidating power.

I think it's immature to run around like chicken little or Barney Fife with guns and chemicals, because someone cooks a hot-dog the old-fashioned way.

This is a weak attempt at mockery of people with presumably good intentions and is essentially unhelpful.

I don't believe they have good intentions.  Folks with good intentions don't run around assaulting and threatening innocent people.

Joe

[JustUs]

Give me your honest opinion. Do you really believe that fire was a threat to anyone? (remember what the fire marshal said, it's level 2. the only safer rating is when it's raining.)

I'm not in the fire biz and didn't see it, so I have no idea or opinion about the fire. This discussion is about the wiseness of one's actions, given the context (Or at least I'm suggesting that considering the context is a wise choice here).

You don't need to be in the fire business to have an opinion. I think you believe the fire was not dangerous, you just don't want to answer the question.

You have missed the point of my post again, and my apologies for perhaps not being clear enough. Without just re-stating the same thing, here's the synopsis: The context: how "the system" works, including the permitting process, the responses (dutiful) of the various people involved, their good intentions to protect property (hint: primo libertarian issue); the consequences: the impression you leave (irresponsible jerk and danger to neighbors), possible fines, forcible entry onto your property, extinguishment of your fire, downgrading of the reputation of your fellows through you being an Ugly Porcupine.

I witness the actions of chicken little and Barney Fife putting out a wienie fire. You witness someone disobeying "the system" that you believe in.

You mischaracterize me and missed the point I hinted at, ie, it's "their" system or "the system", not ours. I neither own it, believe in it or approve of it. I watch for context and consequences. You seem to seek to lash out at people, even fellow libertarians, rather than to demonstrate your better system or your better personal superior fire safety methods and practices.

Re-watch the video so you can see the fire, then give me your option. Do you think that wienie fire is going to burn down Grafton?

I'm not planning to watch the video, thanks. It's not about that fire.

[thinkliberty]

You mischaracterize me and missed the point I hinted at, ie, it's "their" system or "the system", not ours. I neither own it, believe in it or approve of it. I watch for context and consequences. You seem to seek to lash out at people, even fellow libertarians, rather than to demonstrate your better system or your better personal superior fire safety methods and practices.

If you don't believe in or approve of their system then you must not care if anyone complies with it or follows it, but you seem to care.  Why?

You are contradicting yourself when you say:

"the system" works, including the permitting process, the responses (dutiful) of the various people involved, their good intentions to protect property (hint: primo libertarian issue); the consequences: the impression you leave (irresponsible jerk and danger to neighbors), possible fines, forcible entry onto your property, extinguishment of your fire, downgrading of the reputation of your fellows through you being an Ugly Porcupine.

BTW, I didn't "lash out" at anyone. I wasn't the one bring guns and chemicals to ruin another person's wienie roast.

Russell's system seemed like a better system to me:

I have come up with a solution already.
Every time I have a campfire .... I don't burn down the forest. The system is amazing.
The process of completing a new system is now complete.

He tried to demonstrate that it worked, but chicken little and barney fife "who you claim is a libertarian" aggressed against his system and his wienie roast. 

Re-watch the video so you can see the fire, then give me your option. Do you think that wienie fire is going to burn down Grafton?

I'm not planning to watch the video, thanks. It's not about that fire.

So it's not about the fire, it must be about control, like others here have pointed out.

If I am wrong, if it's not about the fire or control what is it about?

[AntonLee]

JustUs, shirley you know where people like ThinkLiberty, Russell, and others including myself are coming from.

it's arbitrary and most definitely not about safety.  I would go so far as to say that these rules don't even work very well.  I see more young people starting fires in crazy places so that fire departments don't find them.  And they don't.  Places where it's idiotic and unsafe to start a fire.  Why there?  Because they need a PERMIT at home.

I was with a fireman last week at his 'bonfire' which took place about 3 feet from wild brush, trees, tons of canopy.  THese people are supposed to be the people I trust to protect my property from fire AND make the rules about how I can use fire on my own property???

I know it's cute to be the contrary, but you can't sit there and say this is a safety thing FIRST. 

[Lloyd Danforth]

There are fire towers that report all daytime fires (smoke) that they spot, and report them to the fire department who have to respond.

[AntonLee]

those towers must do a lot of good at night.

[Silent_Bob]

I think bats roost in them.

[Russell Kanning]

that is helpful too

[Mike Barskey]

They likely have some discretion at the scene, but given that Barskey and Kanning apparently didn't even have a bucket of water nearby for dousing any embers that could be wind-blown into the surrounding area, the actions of firefighters is to be expected.

We did have two separate sources of water within 10 feet of that fire. I'd guess there was a total of about 10 gallons. Plus we had a mound of wet sand about 15 feet in the opposite direction with shovels ready to go.

The system is geared to protect property, no matter how imperfect it is, so to flaunt it is to risk the impression of being uncaring about others' property.

No, the system is geared to instill fear and garner control under the guise of doing something that people want (in this case, protecting from fire hazards).

[Lloyd Danforth]

those towers must do a lot of good at night.

At night, when they see a fire in an area where they have not been informed about a burning permit, they notify the fire department.  They can pin the area of the fire or smoke quite closely.

[Tom Sawyer]

Out of the 4.5 million acres that the New Hampshire Division of Forests and Lands "oversee".

Year To Date:

4 Fires
13 Acres
0 Injuries Reported
Structures Impacted: 0

Largest Fire: 10 acres
http://www.nhdfl.org/fire-control-and-law-enforcement/fire-statistics.aspx

The fear of risk of wildfire, like many risks, is greatly overstated. This isn't the dry west.

Lightning, fireworks, cigarettes, electric lines are significant sources of risk that are accepted as part of living our lives.

I live in the woods, in a wooden house... I take the threat of wildfire seriously, although the fact of the matter is it is a pretty damn low chance of it happening.

Unlike some folks, I don't want a nice government official I can call to ask permission to have a campfire beside my patio... Just because some people might not do the right thing, doesn't mean I lose my rights. If that was the case guns should be much more closely regulated... sex too.

"Mission creep" is a real threat any time we allow government and quasi-government organizations to hold power over us. The volunteer fire department is an example of this.

[Sam A. Robrin]

If enough people could begin notifying the fire department every time they lit a cigarette or struck a match to ignite the burner on a stove, perhaps some awareness might sink through . . .

[Russell Kanning]

if we would have known how popular this particular weenie roast was going to be .... we would have worn better outfits and roasted a whole animal and done it up right