We had to kick Ethan out

[rs38bj]

Is it just me or is the liberty movement going to destroy itself from the inside with all the drama, bickering and namecalling before I ever have a chance to get back to NH

[dalebert]

Is it just me or is the liberty movement going to destroy itself from the inside with all the drama, bickering and namecalling before I ever have a chance to get back to NH

Are you really that much a virgin to drama, as if this is a new thing created by the FSP?  Good grief.  The sky ain't fallin'.

[Tom Sawyer]

Let me see if I have this straight:
     One person was petting a cat and listening to a radio (I seem to be the only person here besides him who doesn't know the exact contents of a radio broadcast before I hear it).  He also fell off a couch.
     Another person went public with accusations guaranteed to destroy a person's life whether true or false, based on nothing more solidly documented than feelings, suppositions, and innuendo; then swung a baseball bat at the accused.
     I think I know where my sympathies lie, but I wanted to be sure I had a firm grasp of the information before this thing goes getting all Salem.

You asked us if you could ask William to sing one of your songs...  (Which showed consideration and good manners on your part)  Don't you think that someone discussing sexual matters is a little beyond that? 

Ethan acknowledges downloading the show, as he listened to it in the presence of someone else's children. He was aware that it would be thought inappropriate by John, because he turned it off when John entered the room.

Ethan knew that the adults were uncomfortable with his "anti-ageist" views, but he thought that his opinion about them being "mature enough" was what mattered.

He acknowledges having sexual conversations with the children that others would find inappropriate.

After a month of things that he was aware had made the adults wary... he chose to be alone in close/intimate contact...

The minimum he is guilty of is being thickheaded and his failure led to his being forced out. At least he didn't almost burn down their house.

[Russell Kanning]

Is it just me or is the liberty movement going to destroy itself from the inside with all the drama, bickering and namecalling before I ever have a chance to get back to NH

neither

[dalebert]

Is it just me or is the liberty movement going to destroy itself from the inside with all the drama, bickering and namecalling before I ever have a chance to get back to NH

Maybe this drama is a good thing.  Maybe it'll filter out the wusses.  If you can't handle a little drama on the Intertubez, maybe you're not ready to fight statists who would lock you up as soon as listen to you protest a little bit.

[rs38bj]

Is it just me or is the liberty movement going to destroy itself from the inside with all the drama, bickering and namecalling before I ever have a chance to get back to NH

Are you really that much a virgin to drama, as if this is a new thing created by the FSP?  Good grief.  The sky ain't fallin'.

LOL
i just wish there was a way for people to realize the face they present to a public view has an impact on things.
it does nothing to promote an increment of positive change.

[MaineShark]

Maybe this drama is a good thing.  Maybe it'll filter out the wusses.  If you can't handle a little drama on the Intertubez, maybe you're not ready to fight statists who would lock you up as soon as listen to you protest a little bit.

Seriously.  Folks on the FSP forum have complained that I'm not nice enough.

Sorry, but we're talking about fighting against a worldwide tyranny that thinks nothing of genocide or other atrocities.  If they can't handle a bit of gruffness, they certainly can't handle that.

I'll stay surly, thanks.

Joe

[Tom Sawyer]

This is not the PR arm of the FSP... 

It's the deep end of the pool... 

[rs38bj]

Apparently the fact that I wasn't even referring to people's ability to handle drama was completely overlooked.

My concern lies with the image that it presents to a wider demographic. 

[rs38bj]

This is not the PR arm of the FSP... 

It's the deep end of the pool... 

you're right it does seem to look that way

[Russell Kanning]

Let me see if I have this straight:
     One person was petting a cat and listening to a radio (I seem to be the only person here besides him who doesn't know the exact contents of a radio broadcast before I hear it).  He also fell off a couch.
     Another person went public with accusations guaranteed to destroy a person's life whether true or false, based on nothing more solidly documented than feelings, suppositions, and innuendo; then swung a baseball bat at the accused.
     I think I know where my sympathies lie, but I wanted to be sure I had a firm grasp of the information before this thing goes getting all Salem.

no you don't seem to have it straight
that is not even Ethan's version of the events.
has it destroyed his life?
he seems to have a friend in you
he can change and restore his standing in this community and with many individuals
we have not burned him at the stake
we did make him find a place to sleep on Monday

[MaineShark]

My concern lies with the image that it presents to a wider demographic.

The Underground, by and large, isn't really targeted at the "wider demographic."  While some gadflies read it, the general public does not.

Joe

[rs38bj]

Joe I know what you're saying and you're right there.

More clearly what I was referring to were people researching, investigating the NH liberty movement who may build an impression of what takes place there without taking the opportunity to visit first (as I had the great fortune to do in December)  and get to know some activists first hand. 

I felt very welcomed by many activists in Keene and by many in Grafton and yourself, and so have no issues with anyone.  A good deal of people seem to have a problem with one another, or whole subgroups. 

I read these forums for years, watched videos, listened to FTL etc and then visited
Yeah you're more correct that the underground is not as much a concern here, but there's also FSP, and other forums, as well as liberty media.
I can see how some people could see some of the CD videos, read some of the forum posts etc and draw certain conclusions about the visible sector of the liberty movement that would lead them to further conclude the liberty movement would not succeed. 
As I said, having been fortunate enough to witness certain thing and meet people firsthand, I know that various acts of drama amongst a few individuals, a few childish displays during CD videos by 1-2 people, are not the reality of the change taking place in NH.  But it only takes a few instances to cause damage. 
It has taken me 5 months of dedicated energy with my best friend who was already fairly libertarian, to get him closer to the idealogy of a much more free, possibly voluntary society.  That's with me working on him nonstop. 
While it is human nature for people to argue, have conflict etc, it is also human nature for someone to revert back to things they are familiar with when made uncomfortable. 
My point overall is that in addition to CD and political involvement, education is vital to a successful change to social consciousness.  And there are certain things in my opinion that do not contribute to the desired goal of re-educating people regarding the realities of the world around them.  Instead it would lead them to cling more tightly to some of the false hoods by which they live their life currently.

[MaineShark]

It's a cost/benefit thing, when it gets to the "big picture" level, though.

A dynamic, vibrant liberty community attracts more recruits than some forum drama can drive away.  While those of us who dislike drama will try to minimize it, any attempt to actually silence the drama would drive folks away.  And it would drive away the most dedicated folks, while a little bit of drama will only drive away the folks who are on the fence, anyway.

Joe

[dalebert]

Believe me.  Many efforts have been made in the past to quell the drama, but it's just exponentially harder to do the larger a community becomes.  There's probably some tipping point, whereby it gets large enough that it doesn't have that small town feel of everyone knowing everyone else's business, but then it just fractures into smaller groups where everyone knows everyone else's business.  That's happened already, in fact.  I'm just telling you you're attempting to engage in a rather futile effort.  All you can do is acknowledge that you have no control over swarm behavior so try not to lose sleep over it.  It ain't going away and if you ain't got the stomach for it, you ain't got the stomach for a massive effort to get 20,000 rather diverse personalities to all congregate in one place and make an attempt to work together for their common goals.