We had to kick Ethan out

[MaineShark]

Is this radio show available for download (either audio, or a transcript) somewhere, so I can make a personal judgment as to the content?

Joe

[agraftonite]

Another Fed outed... 

in my best asian accent
"you funny man"

i think you need me for this one.

[Giggan]

Is this radio show available for download (either audio, or a transcript) somewhere, so I can make a personal judgment as to the content?

http://cdn1.libsyn.com/ftl/FTL2010-06-20.mp3

[LukeDiamond]

Based on both sides of the story that I have heard so far this is essentially what has happened. Ethan did things that others found to be poor etiquette but because it's poor etiquette to point out poor etiquette it took a long time and a lot of frustration to finally climax at Ethan being kicked out.

What I'm getting at is that maybe being bashful about pointing out poor etiquette isn't the best long term approach. And in the grand scheme of things not teaching others about etiquette puts people into permanent classes, whatever etiquette your parents taught you basically defines who your friends are going to be for the rest of your life... unless you re-education yourself. If discussing etiquette was a more open and inviting subject I think people would get along better and there would be less frustration.

I totally agree with Lex.  My assessment from reading this thread so far is that Ethan, being young and without children, is insensitive to parental rights and has not learned that parental rights trump children's right to freedom of association.  Most of us older farts have learned this over the years and learned to be extra careful not to approach children except with their parents' consent.  Likewise, we have a strong "gut feeling" (as some of you have mentioned) against someone who does not follow this protocol.  Sometimes, adults are especially attracted to children and pets because they don't like the suspicion and judgement they receive from other adults, so motives for such protocol breaches are not necessarily sinister. 

I think Lex has the right idea, that we should help educate others about such basic rules of etiquette when they appear to be lacking.  I'll never forget an incident that occurred when I was about 19.  At work a guy was eating some french fries, and I went over and took one of his fries.  He didn't get violent, but very sternly emphasized to me that it was wrong to take someone else's food.  I didn't go away resenting him, but left grateful that he taught me something very useful in life.  Often big confrontations occur when we assume that someone else should have known better.  Even my 50 year old self looking at my 19 year old self thinks,  how could you not have known how rude and disrespectful it is to take food off of someone else's plate without their invitation?  Anyway, that's my 2 cents. 

I know I don't usually comment on NHU but I couldn't contain myself on this one.  I actually had to kick a dear friend out of my life once for a similar unrepentant lack of respect for my parental rights.  (He disobeyed my explicit wish that he not visit my children when I'm not home.)  Although I haven't met you Ethan, I believe you are probably a good person, and I hope you will take note of the nearly universal protocol that is expected concerning interaction with other people's children.

[shyfrog]

Listening to that episode of the FTL show with the children was completely inappropriate.
I cannot make any judgement calls about what else took place as I was not there to witness the events.

I am willing to accept that I might be wrong about my statements earlier leaning toward thinking it might have been Ethan's experimentation with a fetish. I reserve judgement pending any further developments, revelations, and/or evidence.

[MaineShark]

Listening to that episode of the FTL show with the children was completely inappropriate.

While pretty mild, in the grand scheme of things (there wasn't anything in there that even made me raise an eyebrow), that's definitely one that's across the "make sure it's okay with the parents" line.  Which is not ageism - I don't think there's anything in there that was necessarily inappropriate (with parental permission) - just respect for parents.  I'd be hesitant to say that it was a violation of someone's rights (obviously, that changes once he was asked to stop by a parent), but it was certainly a poor choice.

Joe

[AntonLee]

there really wasn't anything on that show that I didn't hear in the locker room in high school.  Take that for what it's worth to you.  I guess I'm a little desensitized. . . .

that being said, I wouldn't play it as a topic of discussion at sunday school.

[Jim Johnson]

Listening to that episode of the FTL show with the children was completely inappropriate.

While pretty mild, in the grand scheme of things (there wasn't anything in there that even made me raise an eyebrow), ...

Joe

What's wrong with your eyebrows, Joe?  Is Testicular Self Cannibalism to ho hum, been there, done that?   

[KBCraig]

there really wasn't anything on that show that I didn't hear in the locker room in high school.

But you weren't hanging out in the high school locker room before you were 12.

[shyfrog]

there really wasn't anything on that show that I didn't hear in the locker room in high school.

But you weren't hanging out in the high school locker room before you were 12.

Nor were you homeschooled (I'm assuming, since you said High School)

[AntonLee]

you're both right.  Which is also why I said "for what it's worth"

[Sam A. Robrin]

Let me see if I have this straight:
     One person was petting a cat and listening to a radio (I seem to be the only person here besides him who doesn't know the exact contents of a radio broadcast before I hear it).  He also fell off a couch.
     Another person went public with accusations guaranteed to destroy a person's life whether true or false, based on nothing more solidly documented than feelings, suppositions, and innuendo; then swung a baseball bat at the accused.
     I think I know where my sympathies lie, but I wanted to be sure I had a firm grasp of the information before this thing goes getting all Salem.

[MaineShark]

Listening to that episode of the FTL show with the children was completely inappropriate.

While pretty mild, in the grand scheme of things (there wasn't anything in there that even made me raise an eyebrow), ...

What's wrong with your eyebrows, Joe?  Is Testicular Self Cannibalism to ho hum, been there, done that?   

Nope.  But I read BMEzine's "ModBlog" and occasionally post comments when discussion of licensure of tattoo and piercing artists come up.  While I have no particular interest in body modification, it's a community that tends to have strong anti-authoritarian beliefs, on average, so pointed comments at the right time can help folks open up to working for real liberty (as opposed to supporting whomever will give the image of liberty).

"Testicular self-cannibalism" wouldn't even raise an eyebrow, there.

Most folks in America vary from "vanilla" to "vanilla with sprinkles."  There's nothing wrong with that.  I know and regularly interact with folks who start out at "loaded sundae" and go up to "habanero icecream with walnuts, anchovies, and motor oil," and sometimes beyond.  What they were discussing on that show was maybe a bit beyond the typical, but in the grand scheme, it was "vanilla with chocolate syrup."  Maybe a few of the topics bordered on some hot fudge.

I'm sure as heck not going to name names, but if you know any substantial fraction of the Porcupine community, I'll pretty much guarantee that you've met folks who engage in stuff that makes the content of that show look quite tame.  You just don't realize it, because they're discrete.

And, like I said, Ethan certainly should have been more discrete.  That's not a condemnation for doing something objectively-wrong, but a value judgment on my part regarding appropriate topics of discussion when children are present, absent parental permission.  Sort of like asking the parents before putting on an R-rated movie, to understand (and hopefully respect, since we're talking private property) their wishes.

Joe

[KBCraig]

You just don't realize it, because they're discrete.

And, like I said, Ethan certainly should have been more discrete.

Discreet, not discrete. If he'd truly been discrete, there wouldn't be a problem. 

[MaineShark]

You just don't realize it, because they're discrete.

And, like I said, Ethan certainly should have been more discrete.

Discreet, not discrete. If he'd truly been discrete, there wouldn't be a problem. 

Yeah, I'm an engineer, so sue me...!

Joe