We had to kick Ethan out

[Russell Kanning]

We had to kick Ethan out  of our place on Monday. Even after I asked him to change his behavior, he continued to act inappropriately towards children. So we had to send him packing monday night. I said a couple words to him. John asked him specific  questions about actions and his use of the phrase "cuddling" in regards  to a child. Kat let her softball bat do the talking.

Feel free to ask any of us questions. Ethan can also post responses and explanations here. This issue had to go to the entire community because he has not changed yet.

[shyfrog]

Interesting... I got a completely different story from Brigitte and the kids. I'm glad someone is looking out for them.
Thank you for being forthright and communicating this to the community instead of trying to withhold information.

[Mike Barskey]

Both Russell's talk with Ethan and John's over-hearing Ethan use "cuddling" happened after shyfrog got a different story from Brigitte. Those things hadn't happened, which is why she did not mention them. She could not have withheld that information, because that information did not exist yet.

I'm glad Ethan no longer lives here, though not for the exact reasons Russell mentioned. And I'm glad everyone else who lives here was involved in deciding whether Ethan was asked to leave. He was asked to leave when I was not around - I would have liked to have been part of that conversation. He was given 2-3 days notice, but then Kat kicked him out immediately. I think Kat's baseball bat approach was overkill, though I do not know or feel what Kat knows or feels.

[Silent_Bob]

Another Fed outed... 

[shyfrog]

Hey Mikey, let Brigitte defend herself, k? I wasn't talking to you 

[EthanLeeVita]

I would be happy to answer any questions about what has happened due to the fact I think it was a series of misunderstandings.

[shyfrog]

And there was information being withheld because there was obvious information about the events being voiced by others. When I called to ask what was going on, Brigitte was unwilling to tell me anything unless I gave her specifics about what I knew. That is, in fact, withholding information. I told her everything I knew at the moment. If it concerns my children, then I have a right and a need to know everything that concerns them. I have no time to play games of hide and seek, semantics, or avoidance. Either be up front and forthwith or be outed as uncommunicative. Communication is key

[George Donnelly]

Before it is incumbent upon Ethan to say anything, detailed accusations would first need to be made. Witness statements need to be presented. It's the responsibility of the accusers to first present their case.

[Kat Kanning]

The events as I understand it:

John overheard conversations and saw things that made him really uncomfortable about what Ethan was doing with one of the children.  He brought it to our attention.  Russell offered to kick him out then.  What wound up happening was Ethan was told that what he was doing was making people freak out and that he should stop touching the kid.  I'll let John describe what he heard and saw.

Yesterday I walked in to a room with Ethan and the child.  The child was sitting at the end of the couch with Ethan right up against him, petting the cat in the kid's lap, despite there being room to sit elsewhere. It was a very intimate scene.  Ethan could have been petting the cat without being "cuddled" up against the kid.John and Russell were in the kitchen, so I told them what I saw.  John went into the living room and said he saw the same thing.  So I left for work, but after driving along and thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that if some guy sat on a couch like that with me, I would be thinking he was hitting on me.  No doubts there.  When I got to work I called home and talked to Brigitte, telling her what I'd seen and told her that I wanted him out that day.  I said if she went and told Russell, he would take care of it, no problem. 

I get home that night and Ethan is still there.  They'd given him a couple of days to get out, which didn't set well with me at all.  Then John came home and said he'd been talking to Kevin who said Ethan described what he does with the child as "cuddling".  That pretty much sealed it for John, Russell and I that something bad was happening or about to happen.  I was really mad at that point and when Ethan arrived home, I grabbed the baseball bat and made sure he was going to leave immediately.

[Kat Kanning]

Oh, and when I got to work, I had asked my boss:  hypothetical situation, you walk into a room and find your wife sitting on the couch with a guy all pressed up against her, with plenty of extra room on the couch.  What would your reaction be?  He said he'd be asking if something was going on between them.  I asked him, OK, if some woman sat down on an otherwise empty couch like that with you, what would you think her intentions were?  He said he thought she'd be making a pass at him.  When I told him I'd seen this between a 19yo and a child, a week after he'd been told to leave the kid alone, he said yes, something bad is going on.

For whatever that's worth.

[George Donnelly]

Ethan, would you describe what happened as well?

[Kat Kanning]

Mike is right, the baseball bat was overkill.

[shyfrog]

Ethan has offered me his side of the story and I listened. I am reserving any conclusion or judgement until I have had an opportunity to sit down with my children and speak to them about it (not over the phone). I will be coming by to pick them up Thursday.

I have always been concerned with the choice of Hoyt farm for their residence, not because of Kat or Russell, but because of the influx of new faces and people coming through there. I made my concerns, reservations, and opinions clear to their mother from day one. I also have more concerns and reservations, as I have voiced in other posts.

Again, this has nothing to do with Kat or Russell, but with the inherent problems surrounding...for lack of a better term... transition housing for Porcs.

[dalebert]

Again, this has nothing to do with Kat or Russell, but with the inherent problems surrounding...for lack of a better term... transition housing for Porcs.

Totally aside from the specific incident being discussed, but having lived in quite a bit of transitional housing, and arguably still in such a situation somewhat, I would tend to agree and I would not consider it a good environment for kids.  It takes fairly mature interpersonal skills to be in such an environment with minimal frictions.  I certainly wouldn't take any kids into the property I manage.  Just an opinion.

[Tom Sawyer]

I appreciate Kat being sensitive to these issues... she has warned us in the past about someone that was a potential threat to our child.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but after having warned the person and the behavior continued... most likely I would have bloody knuckles.