Kelo Report, Part 1

[Michael Fisher]

Hmmm... if we go Sunday, then Kat and Russell may join us.

Kat?  Russell?  Are you out there?

[cathleeninnh]

Sunday is ok too. Where else can we get support?

Cathleen

[Russell Kanning]

not even sure where we would be going if we went Sunday .... hopefully a welcome home party for Lauren

[SethCohn]

Best of luck, Seth!

GL, Seth and Norm!

Thanks... while it was "officially" announced already in the Concord Monitor, a full article will be running tomorrow... but Mike spilled the beans early.  Gotta watch what you say around these outlaw types.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Seth, Cathleen, I was not talking about any individuals either. the FSP touts over 300 people in NH either native or moved.  I can't remember exactly, but, I think there were less than 5 from NH in New London at the protest in front of city hall.
Truth be told there is never a large turnout for anything that takes place in NH either, most of which I manage to attend.
The 80/20 may apply to average citizens, but, how can it apply to people who agreed to be activists?
And I am not just dismayed by the absence of those from  NH, but, by the low turnout from everywhere!  CT!, NY!, RI!

[cathleeninnh]

Would it make you feel better if we reduced the number of events so there were fewer to choose from? Then we might have larger turnouts. Maybe they aren't all at the same time, but it is very difficult to manage every one that comes along.

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

Good luck to the both of you, Seth and Norm.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Would it make you feel better if we reduced the number of events so there were fewer to choose from? Then we might have larger turnouts. Maybe they aren't all at the same time, but it is very difficult to manage every one that comes along.

Cathleen

I'm not sure I understand what you meant, or what was meant by 'making you feel better'.
What number of events?
I'm not refering to the meetings and parties that often take place on the weekends and interfere with each other.  I'm refering to the protests in Hampton, Weare and the manicure thing in Concord.  Also the U.N. flag burnings and the Airport thing, although, I admit they had little to do with NH.

[SethCohn]

Seth, Cathleen, I was not talking about any individuals either. the FSP touts over 300 people in NH either native or moved.  I can't remember exactly, but, I think there were less than 5 from NH in New London at the protest in front of city hall.

Let's see, for a 175+ mile event, taking place outside of NH, and you counted about 1-2% of the 300+ people _did_ make the trip.
Let's be realistic.  Did the protest make a difference?  Did it save anyone's house?  Would having 15-20 more FSPers from NH have made a difference?  No.  Sorry, but I don't blame anyone who didn't show up... this was not 'New London's Last Stand" and even then, you won't see 6700 people show up (grin).

Truth be told there is never a large turnout for anything that takes place in NH either, most of which I manage to attend.

On average, events are pulling between 10-15 minimum, with small poorly publicized events pulling 5-6, and bigger regular events pulling 50...

Added afterward - BTW, that 50+ is not always the _same_ 50 people... it's 50 out of a pool of easily 100 to 150 people who show up to things, just not to everything.   And then there's Bender - it's not official unless he's there.

As Cathleen says

Would it make you feel better if we reduced the number of events so there were fewer to choose from? Then we might have larger turnouts. Maybe they aren't all at the same time, but it is very difficult to manage every one that comes along.

This criticism has been made before, and yet those scheduling events tend to forget it or ignore it.  Don't schedule a half dozen rallys at once in different locations, and expect tons of people.  Don't schedule 3 different events spread around the state right after each other.  Don't schedule conflicting events at all, if possible...   There are lots of reasons people don't make any given event.  Some of us have prior commitments, some of us work, some of us just aren't pulled toward that particular issue or group or whatever.  Some of us (out of the 300+) are missing in action and likely never heard about the event... or are just seat fillers for the most part, sad as that is to admit.

The 80/20 may apply to average citizens, but, how can it apply to people who agreed to be activists?
And I am not just dismayed by the absence of those from  NH, but, by the low turnout from everywhere!  CT!, NY!, RI!

You are holding people to a standard which is unrealistic.  80/20 is _always_ going to be the case.  Human nature says so.
The answer is to increase numbers (20% of 1000 is larger than 20% of 300), and figure out new ways to motivate people.
Infighting, blame, and other negative energy is unlikely to help.  Guilt might help for a while... Some of us have seriously discussed how to guilt more people into volunteering.  In the long run though, the answer is not that easy...

This is _universally_ true, for all groups, including the 'liberty' ones.  The main difference is that collectivist groups tend to attract people willing to work together for goals and like group think.  Individualists to the end, we have more people who resent and resist attempts to herd them... and yet, we're still moving forward... inch by inch... in my mind, we're doing great...

I'm not refering to the meetings and parties that often take place on the weekends and interfere with each other. I'm refering to the protests in Hampton, Weare and the manicure thing in Concord. Also the U.N. flag burnings and the Airport thing, although, I admit they had little to do with NH.

Protest in Hampton: good idea, got press... but not 'statewide' material (it was a local issue, and there were personal politics at play as well)
Protest in Weare:  We're on both sides of this issue... Some for using ED, some against, some via LLHotel, some via WeareBallot, etc... mixed feeling don't lead to big turnouts.
Manicure:   With all due respect to Mike, and the positive press it did get, not everyone wanted to see things go in that direction, so again, mixed feelings here.  (I was out of state, West Coast, for this, and would have been there myself just to see what happened)
UN Flag burnings:  Not all of us enjoy a good old fashioned flag burning... or see the point to it.
Airport:  Same as Manicure - not all of us felt it was the best idea, nor wanted to endorse it or support it.  Again, the positive PR seems to belay some concerns, but those of us who disagree continue to feel the luck will run out one of these events...

Big turnouts:  Moving people in.
Big turnouts:  Statewide events with a social element as well as political.
Big turnouts:  Regular scheduled & well publicized events, with plenty of notice in advance...

[JonM]

Well 80/20 can play out, there's supposed to be 381 porcs in New Hampshire, and then us who are just somewhere near New Hampshire. ?That's 76 or so in the 20% who might be getting involved, and that seems like a real enough number to me. ?If you bump the number to include the participants who are close enough to get involved, the number looks even more real as far as the 20% who are getting out and doing things.

Now it would be nice if it was a rotating 20% who are being activists, as life does intrude on many people's ability to do stuff on a constant basis. ?

[Lloyd Danforth]

Protest in Hampton: good idea, got press... but not 'statewide' material (it was a local issue, and there were personal politics at play as well)
Protest in Weare:? We're on both sides of this issue... Some for using ED, some against, some via LLHotel, some via WeareBallot, etc... mixed feeling don't lead to big turnouts.
Manicure:? ?With all due respect to Mike, and the positive press it did get, not everyone wanted to see things go in that direction, so again, mixed feelings here.? (I was out of state, West Coast, for this, and would have been there myself just to see what happened)
UN Flag burnings:? Not all of us enjoy a good old fashioned flag burning... or see the point to it.
Airport:? Same as Manicure - not all of us felt it was the best idea, nor wanted to endorse it or support it.? Again, the positive PR seems to belay some concerns, but those of us who disagree continue to feel the luck will run out one of these events...

Big turnouts:? Moving people in.
Big turnouts:? Statewide events with a social element as well as political.
Big turnouts:? Regular scheduled & well publicized events, with plenty of notice in advance...

So we add the above to what the NHLA has done and we realize that nothing has been accomplished in New Hampshire!

[SethCohn]

So we add the above to what the NHLA has done and we realize that nothing has been accomplished in New Hampshire!

Lloyd, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

With the entire nation moving in a downward slide toward fascism and big brother, we're all working hard just to prevent that slide... and make slow progress in the other direction.  And yes, that's with the 80/20 rule in effect, and more.

What have we done so far?  The NHLA's done a lot... much of quiet and still in process... and I refuse to list it all, because of that... Ian knows full well how often I complained about discussing things before they are ripe.  But we have made progress in public areas, and the Liberty ratings and bill tracking were no small feat... nobody else does stuff like this, anywhere... on this scale.  (And the next gen will be more impressive and do more... the bar is set higher each year)

We have a slowly moving snowball... and last year it was about the size of your fist... the year before that, it was the size of a golfball... and this year, it'll be the size of your head... and next year... next year, it'll be the size of a whole person... and the year after... it'll be moving faster, and gathering steam... and it'll be something impressive.  Nope, aren't there yet.. but we do have a snowball... and it's not in hell.

[cathleeninnh]

Two yeas ago, at the vote, I pulled some stats on each town in NH. I think it may be time to do it again and look at the changes.

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

Seth, I am aware of all that the NHLA has done, I studied and reported on many bills myself and supported the NHLA financialy.

I, simply,  dismissed what it has done as you, simply, dismissed the stuff below, which I believe was important, because due to the media attention these events received, common people got to hear the other side of things.
______________________
Protest in Hampton: good idea, got press... but not 'statewide' material (it was a local issue, and there were personal politics at play as well)
Protest in Weare:  We're on both sides of this issue... Some for using ED, some against, some via LLHotel, some via WeareBallot, etc... mixed feeling don't lead to big turnouts.
Manicure:   With all due respect to Mike, and the positive press it did get, not everyone wanted to see things go in that direction, so again, mixed feelings here.  (I was out of state, West Coast, for this, and would have been there myself just to see what happened)
UN Flag burnings:  Not all of us enjoy a good old fashioned flag burning... or see the point to it.
Airport:  Same as Manicure - not all of us felt it was the best idea, nor wanted to endorse it or support it.  Again, the positive PR seems to belay some concerns, but those of us who disagree continue to feel the luck will run out one of these events...
_________________________

[SethCohn]

I, simply,  dismissed what it has done as you, simply, dismissed the stuff below, which I believe was important, because due to the media attention these events received, common people got to hear the other side of things.

FYI, I wasn't dismissing the events but pointing out why you didn't have 'huge' turnouts for them.  Yes, there were benefits to each of those events... not arguing that point at all.

Let's not argue about things we clearly disagree on (approach and methods), and focus on the places we can work together... (and that 'we' means all within earshot (or readership, or whathave you).