I'm not sure what "subject" line to write so I'm just going with "The Bible"

[Kat Kanning]

So Rainey do you think God tries to communicate with us through the Bible?

No, not at all.  I am open for the possibility that it may be an instruction book to learn from though. A "divine" instruction book?  I don't know, that's the part that bugs me.

well one problem with that is the Bible claimed to be God-breathed and Jesus claimed to be The Way, The Truth, and The Life and that no one could get to his Father in Heaven except through him.

Jesus claimed to be God.  If that wasn't true, why would you want to use this book as an instruction manual?  You'd be using the words of a liar or crazy man as an instruction manual.

Did you know that Jesus' enemies, who killed him, did not deny that he performed miracles?

[Raineyrocks]

Where did life come from, Rainey?  Do you know how incredibly complex the human eye is?  People will try and tell you that the atoms came together by random chance to create an eye.  How can that happen?  If one single part of this complex mechanism is out of synch, no vision.  Why would evolution make an eye?  It would have to create a fully formed organ all in one shot, since it won't work unless all its parts work.  Science tells us that atoms will always tend to become more random, not less.  Like take a drop of dye and put it in water.  At first it's a well formed drop, but then randomness sets in, and soon the molecules are spread all over.  You don't ever have the dye molecules form into something less random, like letters or something.

The Bible tells us that God created the world and everything all at once - in 6 days.   This matches what scientists have found about the world - that all species seem to have come as is, there have been no legitimate 'missing links' found, where there were intermediate steps found, like between monkey and man.   All those out there have been shown to be frauds.  Darwin himself said that without these missing links, his theory is worthless.  And so it is.

There are many many fulfilled prophesies in the Bible.  It contains about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy.  The destruction of Tyre, the invasion of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and Rome—each event was accurately predicted in the Bible and later fulfilled to the smallest detail.   How did these prophets know what would happen in the future without the intervention of God.

Millions of people throughout history have claimed to have been changed by God, myself included.  I was a pretty rotten person and I hurt a lot of people.  Now I'm different, and I couldn't have done it on my own.  Do you really believe all those people are delusional?  That's an awful lot of witnesses to an event.  Proof in court only needs a couple witnesses.

Exactly and even if atoms came together randomly, who created the atoms?  About 99.8% of the time I don't have any doubts about a "Creator" whom I choose to call God however a tiny percentage of me once in awhile, wonders about my brother's scenario.  Could all of this have been created by aliens?  Then, who created the aliens?  If I believe God is the only creator then I don't ask myself who created God. 

I've never believed in Darwin's theory, it's too easy to take apart.  However, I've watched historical shows that present the possibility of things in the bible being perception at that particular time in history; not reality.  For instance, Noah's Ark can be proven as a historical occurrence but that it didn't happen to the entire earth even though it may have seemed that way for people in that region that was flooded at that time.  Could the bible have been written by a group of people that make the prophecies come true intentionally?  How can we be sure that prophets even wrote these things?  I'm just asking, not trying to be difficult.    I would love to have proof instead of faith when it comes to a book I'm going to base my life upon, maybe that's impossible as I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

I wonder sometimes if just believing in God and not having a belief in the bible is enough to change our lives, I don't know.  It does seem to me that people I know had thier lives changed for the better due to the bible and a form of religion. Could it be energy from a positive thought process that has changed thier lives though or the accountability they feel to answer to God?  I'm not saying that's what happened with you personally but I would like to ask you if you feel the bible had a large part in changing your life for the better?  Do you think there is only one "true bible"?   I've said prayers many times for God to help me know what to say, how to handle certain things, etc. and I really felt that God gave me the words and wisdom that I know I didn't have.  I've also asked God tons of times to show me the "right" religion and bible and I've never to my knowledge had these questions answered, I don't know why.

My brother and I were talking about all of this a couple days ago and he thinks it's totally unfair that some serial killer can ask for forgiveness at the time of his execution and receive a "free pass" to heaven.  He said if God is like that and can let that suffering the serial killer inflicted upon innocent people just be okay at the end of his life he doesn't want to believe in or be in heaven, (if there was one), with that kind of god.   I understand what he means but I think that God can read our hearts and knows who is totally sorry of not.  Again all of this asking for forgiveness, heaven, and hell is based upon someone's belief in the bible.

[Kat Kanning]

I'm technically a serial killer, as is anyone who killed multiple people in war.  There should be no hope for us? 

The Bible did have a large part in changing my life.  It is the word of God, and tells us the only way to receive forgiveness of our sins, and obtain eternal life. 

How are you in regard to God's laws?  Do you consider yourself a good person, Rainey?

[Tom Sawyer]

...no one could get to his Father in Heaven except through him.

Like most exclusive night clubs, can't I just slip the doorman a Benjamin?

[Kevin Bean]

Something/someone had to create all of "this", right?  Do we owe "them"?  Most of us are raised to be grateful to our parents for raising us, giving us what we need, shouldn't we be indebted to the creator of all of us?

What do we owe them for all of the suffering that is part of life? Is it ethical to cause an innocent person to suffer without the consent of the person who suffers?

Have you ever watched, 'The Ninth Configuration'?  If so, you know about the astronaut that went insane, (of did he), when he was in space and felt so tiny and couldn't handle the possibility that we are all just this tiny, nothing in all of the vastness that he saw. I won't mention the end of the movie because it had an obvious " happy ending" and isn't based on reality.  I guess what I'm getting at here is fear and how in the world do I get rid of that?  I don't know why this particular person's information impressed me.  I'm thinking it's because he bought "possibilities" into reality for me and didn't just preach in the normal sense of the word.

No, I haven't watched that. Fear is an awful reason to believe something, in my opinion. I would rather believe in things for which there is evidence. There is a lot of evidence that Jesus really existed and really taught love, peace and non-cooperation with injustice.

Nah, it goes deeper than that for me.   I'm not that simple-minded.  Obvisouly this guy has me questioning possibilities, he's not the first person or event that has caused me to do so and I definitely don't believe everything from the internet.  I'm not just saying I believe everything that he's said or I wouldn't have presented the questions I did on the forum; I'd have my head buried in the King James bible.

I didn't mean to imply that you're simple-minded. The Bob/Alice conversation is just an example of a circular argument, which is also the kind of argument KJV-only advocates (and many Christian apologists) make. I saw a TV commercial that made me think of posting that.

[Kat Kanning]

...no one could get to his Father in Heaven except through him.

Like most exclusive night clubs, can't I just slip the doorman a Benjamin?

I'd call it a 'light club', and that cool-aid that Becky said I've drunk, it's the water of eternal life.   

[Russell Kanning]

...no one could get to his Father in Heaven except through him.

Like most exclusive night clubs, can't I just slip the doorman a Benjamin?

that would be temporary then you be found out and kicked out by big angels

[Jim Johnson]

I've never liked exclusive clubs.
I was kicked out a disco in Des Monies for wearing a hat.
My Pastor kicked me out of their Confirmation class picture for wearing a turtle neck.
I was kicked out of High School for one day because I had forgotten to wear a belt.

I wonder if after following all of God's rules, there will also be some arbitrary dress code that will keep you out of heaven.

[MaineShark]

The Bible tells us that God created the world and everything all at once - in 6 days.

Actually, the Hebrew word, "yom" does not necessarily mean "day," in the conventional "24 hour" sense.  "Epoch," "era," "span of time" are all also acceptable translations of the word.  "Ereb" and "boqer" (evening and morning) may also be plural, or may refer to the endings and beginnings of a span of time (similar to the English phrase, "in his twilight years").

Hebrew is very difficult to translate, and there are numerous known and provable errors in the King James Bible (eg, the Comandment, "thou shalt not kill," when the actual Hebrew unequivocally uses "murder," not "kill").  Asserting that a particular translation of a term with multiple known meanings is "the" translation of that word does not make sense.

Genesis also actually describes evolution.  It does not describe God snapping His fingers and "poof," there are plants and animals.  God says, "let the earth bring forth..." and such, clearly indicating that God is commanding natural processes to perform the actual nitty-gritty of Creation.  Which is actually more impressive - any idiot can place dominoes in a pattern on the floor, but only a genius could line up thousands of them so that tapping one causes each to fall in turn, in perfect coordination, to create the final picture.

I've never actually understood the Christian opposition to evolution, both in light of the phrasing used in Genesis, as well as considering which version is actually more impressive: building something with your hands, or having such perfect Knowledge and Skill that you can fling a single pebble down a hill and know that the resulting landslide will end up with rocks forming themselves into a city at the bottom...

There are many many fulfilled prophesies in the Bible.  It contains about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy.  The destruction of Tyre, the invasion of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and Rome—each event was accurately predicted in the Bible and later fulfilled to the smallest detail.   How did these prophets know what would happen in the future without the intervention of God.

How do we know that those "smallest details" were not added to the narrative, after the fact?  None of us read those prophesies before those events, so how can we know?

[Jim Johnson]

Where is Friday?
How come the FSM isn't here yet?

[Tom Sawyer]

I've never liked exclusive clubs.
I was kicked out a disco in Des Monies for wearing a hat.
My Pastor kicked me out of their Confirmation class picture for wearing a turtle neck.
I was kicked out of High School for one day because I had forgotten to wear a belt.

I wonder if after following all of God's rules, there will also be some arbitrary dress code that will keep you out of heaven.

Johnson was kept out of Heaven for a "wardrobe malfunction".

We'll all be hanging out playing our harps and Jim will be put on the down escalator.

[Jim Johnson]

I've never liked exclusive clubs.
I was kicked out a disco in Des Monies for wearing a hat.
My Pastor kicked me out of their Confirmation class picture for wearing a turtle neck.
I was kicked out of High School for one day because I had forgotten to wear a belt.

I wonder if after following all of God's rules, there will also be some arbitrary dress code that will keep you out of heaven.

Johnson was kept out of Heaven for a "wardrobe malfunction".

We'll all be hanging out playing our harps and Jim will be put on the down escalator.

Well, no you won't... and they only have up escalators.

[Raineyrocks]

I'm technically a serial killer, as is anyone who killed multiple people in war.  There should be no hope for us? 

The Bible did have a large part in changing my life.  It is the word of God, and tells us the only way to receive forgiveness of our sins, and obtain eternal life. 

How are you in regard to God's laws?  Do you consider yourself a good person, Rainey?

In order for me to answer how I am in regard to God's laws I'd have to believe the bible is the true word of God and I'd have to say at this point that I don't.

Yup, I do consider myself a good person but according to the bible that's just not enough.  I'd have to truly believe that Jesus is God's son/god himself and ask him to forgive my sins and save me which I've done in the past based on a pastor's belief in the bible; because I was scared, yup a hell fire sermon.

[Raineyrocks]

Something/someone had to create all of "this", right?  Do we owe "them"?  Most of us are raised to be grateful to our parents for raising us, giving us what we need, shouldn't we be indebted to the creator of all of us?

What do we owe them for all of the suffering that is part of life? Is it ethical to cause an innocent person to suffer without the consent of the person who suffers?

Have you ever watched, 'The Ninth Configuration'?  If so, you know about the astronaut that went insane, (of did he), when he was in space and felt so tiny and couldn't handle the possibility that we are all just this tiny, nothing in all of the vastness that he saw. I won't mention the end of the movie because it had an obvious " happy ending" and isn't based on reality.  I guess what I'm getting at here is fear and how in the world do I get rid of that?  I don't know why this particular person's information impressed me.  I'm thinking it's because he bought "possibilities" into reality for me and didn't just preach in the normal sense of the word.

No, I haven't watched that. Fear is an awful reason to believe something, in my opinion. I would rather believe in things for which there is evidence. There is a lot of evidence that Jesus really existed and really taught love, peace and non-cooperation with injustice.

Nah, it goes deeper than that for me.   I'm not that simple-minded.  Obvisouly this guy has me questioning possibilities, he's not the first person or event that has caused me to do so and I definitely don't believe everything from the internet.  I'm not just saying I believe everything that he's said or I wouldn't have presented the questions I did on the forum; I'd have my head buried in the King James bible.

I didn't mean to imply that you're simple-minded. The Bob/Alice conversation is just an example of a circular argument, which is also the kind of argument KJV-only advocates (and many Christian apologists) make. I saw a TV commercial that made me think of posting that.

Okay, but other people have existed and taught love, peace, and non-cooperation with injustice too.  So should I worship Martin Luther King, Jr.?   I'm not being obnoxious, it's just a logical question in my mind.    

Sorry, for taking your comment out of line and suggesting that it had to do with me.

[Raineyrocks]

The Bible tells us that God created the world and everything all at once - in 6 days.

Actually, the Hebrew word, "yom" does not necessarily mean "day," in the conventional "24 hour" sense.  "Epoch," "era," "span of time" are all also acceptable translations of the word.  "Ereb" and "boqer" (evening and morning) may also be plural, or may refer to the endings and beginnings of a span of time (similar to the English phrase, "in his twilight years").

Hebrew is very difficult to translate, and there are numerous known and provable errors in the King James Bible (eg, the Comandment, "thou shalt not kill," when the actual Hebrew unequivocally uses "murder," not "kill").  Asserting that a particular translation of a term with multiple known meanings is "the" translation of that word does not make sense.

Genesis also actually describes evolution.  It does not describe God snapping His fingers and "poof," there are plants and animals.  God says, "let the earth bring forth..." and such, clearly indicating that God is commanding natural processes to perform the actual nitty-gritty of Creation.  Which is actually more impressive - any idiot can place dominoes in a pattern on the floor, but only a genius could line up thousands of them so that tapping one causes each to fall in turn, in perfect coordination, to create the final picture.

I've never actually understood the Christian opposition to evolution, both in light of the phrasing used in Genesis, as well as considering which version is actually more impressive: building something with your hands, or having such perfect Knowledge and Skill that you can fling a single pebble down a hill and know that the resulting landslide will end up with rocks forming themselves into a city at the bottom...

There are many many fulfilled prophesies in the Bible.  It contains about 3,856 verses directly or indirectly concerned with prophecy.  The destruction of Tyre, the invasion of Jerusalem, the fall of Babylon and Rome—each event was accurately predicted in the Bible and later fulfilled to the smallest detail.   How did these prophets know what would happen in the future without the intervention of God.

How do we know that those "smallest details" were not added to the narrative, after the fact?  None of us read those prophesies before those events, so how can we know?

Wow, your description of creation and evolution is awesome and beautiful!    

Do you think the bible was initially the divine word of God and then translated incorrectly?  If all of the bibles are corrupted. so to say. then how can people be following God's word the "right" way?

Exactly, "kill" and "murder" changes the entire commandment!  I've read the Jehovah's Witness bible and just by changing something as simple as a comma changed the entire meaning of the verse. 

How are people supposed to live their lives by a book full of errors?  I'm just throwing questions out here, I'm not trying to imply that you believe one thing or the other.