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Author Topic: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!  (Read 1595 times)

Jay

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Jim Johnson

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 10:30 AM NHFT »

"You're not one of us until you're ruining for the rest of us."
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2016, 01:05 PM NHFT »

Pride comes before a fall.

I observed years of hubris and arrogance. Including gangs of his supporters attacking anyone who dared to say WTF.

If people are free to do what they want and that is to include undesirable behaviors, others are free to disassociate.

I think attacking and banning are the wrong course. It leads to a backlash.

I think the growing pains are to be expected and creative destruction can be the beginning of good things.

Sorry that some are hurt in this process.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2016, 08:10 PM NHFT »

yep
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KBCraig

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 03:22 AM NHFT »

I support social shunning; I do so daily, just by declining to engage or interact with certain people.

Several years ago I chose that same route when it came to a certain radio show: I just stopped listening. No drama, no announcements.

A few weeks ago, I grew tired of that show host's endless attempts to create and then pimp drama where drama didn't need to exist. I dropped him, but I didn't bother adding to the drama by signing a petition and blasting it all over social media.

Now hard is it to *not* announce to the world that you're no longer best friends with Becky, because she is now friends with Jenny?

Middle schools was a looooong time ago.
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blackie

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 06:45 AM NHFT »

Whoever wrote the pledge is delusional.

"For its first 15 years, the FSP was not well known, not even in New Hampshire. It took a lot of time and money to get each new signer. These days, the FSP is well-known in liberty circles worldwide, with coverage by major news media, having libertarian luminaries who support and endorse us. And we are definitely known in NH."

Wat

Is the FSP getting a bunch of major media coverage I don't know about?
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Free libertarian

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 09:18 AM NHFT »


Sometimes things get presented in a false dichotomy sort of way.    A person can acknowledge a person doesn't speak for them, but still appreciate their efforts in whole or in part or not at all.  It's also possible to support a persons efforts, while acknowledging you might have gone about something different than the way that person has. 

 Ian doesn't speak for me,  I do.   However, I appreciate and support a lot of Ian's efforts.   
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Russell Kanning

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 09:53 AM NHFT »

that is funny .... the FSP is bigger than it used to be ... but you can find plenty of people that have never heard of it.
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Jay

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 02:48 PM NHFT »

Is the FSP getting a bunch of major media coverage I don't know about?

I think it's easy for most people (not excluding myself either) to forget that nobody really gives a shit about what is happening out there.

However, on the flipside, any rumors/news that they come across sticks in their minds. It's funny that Denis Goddard and his death warrant signers magically think that disassociating with the "Shire Free Church" corporate conglomerate is going to make a difference to "normal" people who already have heard or read things. People are STILL threatening the life of Anarcho Jesse for burning the American flag in Keene Central square. They are still saying things like the FSP wants to take over Grafton and refuse to enforce prostitution laws and legalize dueling.

NH may be "freer", but it's a very "we know everyone's business and we never forget it" type of place.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 10:14 AM NHFT by Jay »
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Jim Johnson

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 05:52 PM NHFT »

The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.
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Tom Sawyer

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2016, 08:51 PM NHFT »

The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

It appears to be a business decision.

Quote
FSP must no longer sponsor, advertise on, affiliate with, or accept sponsorship or advertising from:

Free Talk Live
Free Keene
Liberty Radio Network

Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

Clearly many people feel that Ian is not the man for the job. Looking down the list I see many former associates that have lost faith in his "brand".

Some have even gone as far as to say he is an agent provocateur. In the end it doesn't matter who he works for...

In Ian's own words "The market has spoken!"  ;D
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Free libertarian

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 09:32 AM NHFT »

Maybe, the "you're not doing it right Ian" crowd has a point.  If the goal of some of the petitioners is to polish the turd of government to achieve a fine diamond like sheen, disassociating from Ian and his media might be the best thing for them.

My goal is not to polish the turd of involuntary government, I tried that a bit and got shit all over my hands.   

Although to be fair, I'll acknowledge it's certainly possible to hold both Ian and  government in contempt.   

I'm curious how the Free State Project from an organization perspective arrives at a decision to excommunicate a person and what the financial impact of a disassociation with Ian would be ?   

Is there any kind of a "double secret probation" or will only Ian's head on a pike suffice?






   
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Free libertarian

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 09:36 AM NHFT »

The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.


 I like that you used the word "sanctimonious" .  I think it oughta get more use. 
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Jay

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 10:31 AM NHFT »

Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

AKA crafting your lying to guile people stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

I don't think it's a coincidence that one of Ian's top detractors, who has been on a public and private campaign to disassociate him from FSP matters for years, is a full time paid propagandist for a living. One could even infer that someone like that could benefit financially from seeing Ian's media empire connection, provided at almost no cost to the FSP, severed. After all, someone has to do the job afterwards...right? And do it the right way this time! Fundraiser time...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 10:33 AM NHFT by Jay »
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MaineShark

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Re: This is your chance to excommunicate someone!
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 06:39 PM NHFT »

Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.
AKA crafting your lying to guile people stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

No, it's called "communicating."  If you are trying to present a particular message, but the way you are presenting it causes the recipient to receive a different message, then you are not actually providing the intended message.  So, proper communication involves tailoring the presentation to the recipient such that the message which is received is actually what is intended.

Now, someone could be doing that in order to deceive.  Someone can say one thing, but say it in such a way that the recipient takes away a very different message.  But someone can also do that in order to make sure that honest communication takes place.

Ian does seem to have an issue with communicating.  He presents things which are generally correct, but does it in such a way that many listeners come away with a completely different message, which is actually incorrect.  "It's none of my business who has sex with whom" says to a libertarian that he acknowledges others may make their own choices, and that there's no automatic need to assume something is wrong, unless someone makes an accusation of victimization; if such an accusation is made, anyone present may champion the cause of the victim.  To a non-libertarian, that says that he thinks predators should be able to get away with anything, and that no one should interfere, even if it is blatantly obvious that someone is being victimized.

Two very different results from the same words, because he does not choose his words to actually communicate the message to the entirety of his audience. It's like giving a speech in French to a mixed audience, and making a lot of metaphors involving seals.  It'll be "phoque this" and "phoque that," and the English-speaking members of the audience are just going to be hearing a bunch of cursing.

That said, I'm unimpressed with the level of extremism being applied to the Snowden recording.  From what I've been able to gather, audience members were asked, after the arrived, not to record.  Someone can correct me if I've been misled.  If that's the case, though, there was no contract not to record; in fact, those who bought tickets expecting to be able to record could claim that they were deceived.

In the case of Tasker, from what I've seen, he's correct: there is no one age of consent that actually applies to all people (some may be unable to consent well above the 16 years where the state law says they are able), Tasker is innocent until proven guilty, and the drug claims are obviously illegitimate in a free society.  That said, there are injustices taking place every day, and that seems like a very poor choice of which one to champion.
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