Georgist Question

[Dreepa]

It seems to me that the people that should be paying the bulk of this so called "economic rent" are the parents or re-producers. Since it's their sexual activity that is creating the entities that need a "place to
stand" and by extension a place to live and use of resources that lessens the amount that is left to go around for the rest of us.

But I live in the same size place as I did before I had kids.  therefore I am more efficient.  Using the same amount of space with more people.  SO you have to pay me econ rent.

[CNHT]

The whole premise to Frank's theory is: Economic redistribution.
All his mumbo jumbo is merely to keep us from recognizing that fact.

Exactly Alan! I saw this the very first time I read that mumbo jumbo and yet, he continues to engage many in arguments about this when we all agree that we do not like redistribution of anyone's labors or land or whatever. Period. And so therefore I don't understand why anyone would ascribe to Frank's 'system' of rules and laws that would be imposed under his geo-political area should he ever succeed at putting Vermont into it and if it was ever be established as he envisions it. He may say he is not part of the UN, but this is exactly what the UN wants.

Those of you advertising Vt Commons, I hope you know what you are promoting. If Frank wants to do this fine, but please don't try to get NH involved...it won't fly. I did not come to NH to join a COMMUNE!

[dirk]

But I live in the same size place as I did before I had kids.  therefore I am more efficient.  Using the same amount of space with more people.  SO you have to pay me econ rent.

Nope. You're using more resources to provide sustenance for your kids, space notwithstanding. Why should I pay you to reproduce.

[Dreepa]

You're using more resources to provide sustenance for your kids, space notwithstanding. Why should I pay you to reproduce.

I am using more resources.. but I am paying for them. They are not given to me.

[dirk]

"I am using more resources.. but I am paying for them. They are not given to me."


And that is how it should be. I am also paying for the resources that I use, including my space. Therefore,
I don't owe you, Frank C. or anyone else economic rent of any kind cuz I already payed and am continuing to pay for what I use.

[Dreepa]

"I am using more resources.. but I am paying for them. They are not given to me."


And that is how it should be. I am also paying for the resources that I use, including my space. Therefore,
I don't owe you, Frank C. or anyone else economic rent of any kind cuz I already payed and am continuing to pay for what I use.

I agree.

My comments about econ rent were meant to be taken as a joke regarding your comments about people with kids.
I started this thread to se if I can ever get to the bottom of this 'georgism' stuff but it always gets off into philopshy land. and the Lex posts something very clear.

[dirk]

I agree.

My comments about econ rent were meant to be taken as a joke regarding your comments about people with kids. I started this thread to se if I can ever get to the bottom of this 'georgism' stuff but it always gets off into philopshy land. and the Lex posts something very clear.



I was just "playin' along" as well. I don't think you should waste a lot of time trying to "get to the bottom of this 'georgism' stuff. It's not worth the effort. I don't usually countenance going for the ad hominem route but I think it's pretty clear to most people posting here that this Frank C. person is a commie. This will be my last post on this subject. Thank you.

[tracysaboe]

It seems to me that the people that should be paying the bulk of this so called "economic rent" are the parents or re-producers. Since it's their sexual activity that is creating the entities that need a "place to
stand" and by extension a place to live and use of resources that lessens the amount that is left to go around for the rest of us.

Or the people that are moving in.

That's exactly what a Non-Georgist free market community would be doing. Property values rising because of increased demand by people moving in and having babies.

TRacy

[FrankChodorov]

I am also paying for the resources that I use, including my space. Therefore,
I don't owe you, Frank C. or anyone else economic rent of any kind cuz I already payed and am continuing to pay for what I use.

how are you paying for what you are using?

the purchase price that you pay is just capitalized economic rent that was stolen from you...

if all inhabitable lands are legally occupied you have no choice but to pay for access to land or be gifted that right...

[FrankChodorov]

we all agree that we do not like redistribution of anyone's labors or land or whatever

yet you are promoting the redistribution of someone's labor by requiring the excluded to pay for the right of self-ownership...

I don't understand why anyone would ascribe to Frank's 'system' of rules and laws that would be imposed under his geo-political area should he ever succeed at putting Vermont into it

the "system" is a modified version of the property tax laws...move all taxation off of labor and capital and onto land value and don't pay the government to spend but pay your neighbors directly.

so it is better than what we have today from a libertarian perspective

I hope you know what you are promoting. If Frank wants to do this fine, but please don't try to get NH involved...it won't fly

if you are against the sales and income tax as your pledge indicates are you for or against the property tax?

or do you subscribe to the mantra that "all taxation is theft"?

[tracysaboe]

The permise to your theory is that we own the earth in common and if you exclude someone you have to compensate them, well what do you compensate them with?

a lien on the appreciating land value that then becomes the non-redeemable backing of a rent voucher local currency system.

What if people don't want to use your fnacy smancy currency system?

You going to institute legal tender laws like the current Federal Maffia.

Tracy

I thought you had me on ignore?

you're a bigger flip flopper than John Kerry...

That was just for that thread. It was cluttering up other conversations. This thread is entirely devoted to your loonesy

TRacy

not mine...Leo Tolstoy's.

We all have our blind spots.  Tolstoy at least (onlike you) contributed a lot of other stuff to the cause of libertye to make up for it.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

We all have our blind spots.  Tolstoy at least (onlike you) contributed a lot of other stuff to the cause of libertye to make up for it.

at least you admit he was a supporter...

how can someone like Tolstoy call himself an anarchist and be a supporter of Geo-libertarianism?

[Braddogg]

how can someone like Tolstoy call himself an anarchist and be a supporter of Geo-libertarianism?

I've heard you make this claim about Tolstoy a few times.  I wonder if you would do me the favor of providing a reference (aside from an online encyclopedia simply listing him, without reference to a work, as a Georgist).  By the way, I don't think Tolstoy ever referred to himself as an anarchist (though I would agree that he, in essence was an anarchist).

[FrankChodorov]

how can someone like Tolstoy call himself an anarchist and be a supporter of Geo-libertarianism?

I've heard you make this claim about Tolstoy a few times.  I wonder if you would do me the favor of providing a reference (aside from an online encyclopedia simply listing him, without reference to a work, as a Georgist).  By the way, I don't think Tolstoy ever referred to himself as an anarchist (though I would agree that he, in essence was an anarchist).

http://www.earthsharing.org.au/index.php?module=Website&action=Text&content=1128484651140-0971&parentContent=1125898811168-0064

excerpt:

"It was at the beginning of 1885 that he happened to lay his hands on the books of the great American sociologist. By then the moral and social doctrine of the thinker had been solidly and definitely established. Man's supreme and unique duty was to perfect himself morally and not to co-operate with the wrong. Thus the social problem would be automatically solved when the majority has understood the true meaning of pure Christianity and when it has learned to abstain from all crimes which are frequently and commonly committed. All reasoning about the precise nature of the citizens' rights, about laws, about the organisation of governmental compulsion for their protection is anathema to the great thinker.

But...hardly had Tolstoy had a glance at Social Problems and Progress and Poverty and he was completely captivated by George's outstanding exposition. His strict daily routine is broken.

'This morning I read George instead of writing' ,Tolstoy confesses in a letter to his wife. Two days later he adds: 'I read my George'. (He says 'my'. He never said this of any other author). 'This is a very important book. This is a step forward of equal importance to the liberation of our serfs. This is the liberation of the earth from private ownership.'

'Their point of view in this matter is the control of men. And it is necessary to read George, who defined the problem with precision and definitively. After this there is no more debating, one has to take resolutely one side or the other. Personally I demand much more than he does: but his project is the first step of the ladder which I would like to climb.'

And the thinker does not hesitate any longer. From this encounter on he resolutely and enthusiastically takes George's side, and to his last breath for a quarter of a century, he makes every effort without relaxation to make his discovery known. He publishes articles on George: he writes introductions to the remarkable translations of his works."

[Lex]

This is the liberation of the earth from private ownership.

Sounds like a great idea! NOT!