Dada in Federal Court 7/17 .... leads to 4 days in jail

[Tom Sawyer]

 

Wow the one man protest is really something.

Another case of something being much more powerful than I would have intially thought.

Cheers to Dave... a pioneer.

[Dave Ridley]

Hey guys! I will report more later but a couple quick corrections...the IRS folks *did* ask me to leave, but I didn't get the impression they were asking me to leave the building, just their office within the building.  So I left (slowly) the offices but not the building.  After that no one repeated an order or request to do anything else so I decided to stand inside the building but outside the IRS offices.   I was thinking I would probably leave pretty soon, but that's when they came out and told me the police were coming.  So I had to stay....    I can see myself leaving a property I'm ordered off of, but I don't think it would be good to leave a property just because some police are coming.

Also another minor correction...I'm not sure it would be right to say I was worried the police would arrest me; it probably would have been an ok day to be arrested.  But I did want to make sure you guys had some kind of warning that it was possible. 

Kat thanks for getting the word out so fast and thanks everyone for showing interest!

I'll post some details later, and welcome to our new IRS and Nashua PD readers!

[Russell Kanning]

I'll post some details later, and welcome to our new IRS and Nashua PD readers!

Don't do that when I am eating .... it could get messy.

[John]

showing interest!

I'd call it support.
Heck, I was ready start heading towards the/any Prison with Gadsen flag (wich is allways in the car and on the ready & guitar), if they were holding you.
GLAD YOUR OK, DUDE!

[John]

I took the story to FTL at 7+.

Dave took "part 1" of the story to FTL just now.

Good job Dave.

[John]

Dave's calling back tommorrow with "part 2."
We were left in the middle of the story  ; at a point before the men with guns arived.

[PowerPenguin]

I like to refer to beurocrats as "desk-zombies!" 8-)

[John]

"desk-zombies!"

I like that.

[NC2NH]

Good job, Dave. I'm glad you weren't arrested and I commend your courage.

[Dave Ridley]

OK here is a fuller report on the one man demo inside Nashua's IRS office.

As most of you know, another NH resident, Russell Kanning, held a demonstration at the Keene IRS office in August and was arrested for attempting to enter the building and hand out flyers.  Russell may be free now, but that hasn't stopped the spread of anti-IRS activity in Keene.  Every Thursday there is a larger group of activists outside their offices.  I think it is really great that there is some follow up on Russell's sacrifice, but why limit it to Keene?  Why not deliver Russell's message to agents in other parts of the state?

So since I was driving by the Nashua IRS office anyway, and had signs in my trunk anyway, I just grabbed one and spent fifty seconds writing a message on it.   The sign says "Is it right to work 4 IRS?"

I went into the office with the sign around 3:20 p.m., more or less neatly dressed.    There were two agents manning the dull gray teller windows and a family of foreigners trying to get some kind of paperwork done through their interpreter.   I stood in a place where the agents could see me then smiled and nodded at each of them.    One of them looked back at me and said "yes!" in answer to my sign.  So you can get answers from the IRS after all....

She looked kind of amused.  The other agent didn't.   They both tried to ignore me for about five minutes, then the man said do you want to call the police or should I?   The lady said "I'm not going to call the police, he's not bothering me; he's just asking a question."

The man said "he's annoying me!"   I grinned at the lady.   The man seemed to sigh sort of impotently.

At some point in here I placed a flyer in the man's teller window which, to my surprise, he opened and began to read.

The flyer says:

--------

IS IT RIGHT TO WORK FOR THE "INTERNAL ROBBERY SQUADRON?"

I have the right to remain silent.  IRS agents have the right to quit their jobs.  If that is not possible, they have a responsibility to work as inefficiently as possible when taking our money, and as quickly as possible when returning it.

I'm here to respectfully ensure they know that I do not appreciate what they are doing and to make them feel uncomfortable...morally, not physically.

IRS taxes fund torture, waste and unconstitutional Federal mandates like the privacy-killing "Real ID."

If you would like to join New Hampshire's peaceful resistance to IRS tyranny, come to

NHFREE.COM
The state's most active web forum

"Keeping NH Free
From Keene to Shining Sea"


--------

When he saw the NHfree.com at the bottom, he said "Oh it's YOU guys," and put the flyer down, rolled his eyes.   Word is really getting out about us I guess!  I retreated to a spot where I was more out of the way and concentrated on staying out of the way but visible.

I remember the man saying something like:  "You're not allowed to solicit on Federal property." 

At this point doors started opening from deeper inside the office and one after another dour looking people started coming out giving me dirty looks.  I tried to nod at all of them respectfully and keep the sign aimed toward each of them as they came and went.   I smiled at the immigrant family but realized I shouldn't stand too close to them for fear incoming and outgoing bureaucrats might erroneously associate them with me.

After I was in the office for about 20 minutes, and most of the employees had presumably come out to take a look at me (many of them saying "Yes!" in answer to my sign's question) an attractive middle aged lady came into the lobby with an entourage that included the biggest male bureaucrat they could find and said very sternly "I'd like you to leave."  I was glad she brought the big guy along because I didn't want them to feel physically scared of me.   Anyway the attractive bureaucrat and maybe the others seemed to say quite a few things and I don't remember them all, but the gist I got was that they wanted me out of their office, which takes up part of the third floor.  I didn't get the sense that they were ordering me out of the entire building.

So, I began leaving the office while facing the IRS folks with my sign.  I wasn't far from the door, so I didn't have far to go, but I kinda move slow sometimes when government folks are telling me what to do; you know how it is.   After about a half-minute's worth of me leaving they decided I wasn't leaving fast enough and the attractive devourer of our sustenance kept getting angrier.  She said "LEAVE!!!"

Somewhere in there she indicated an interest in calling the police, but that didn't deter me from continuing to follow her order.

Then something interesting happened.  I looked behind me at the door I was eventually going to exit, and saw Henry McElroy standing there!   Henry is a former State Rep and Free Stater from Nashua who of course had no idea I was going to be there.   Apparently he just happened to show up at that moment as part of his own very different fight against the IRS.  He's trying to do some complicated legal thing which I will never understand or try to explain.   But I'm glad he's fighting and was glad to see him there.

Anyway I couldn't say anything to him, but then the IRS lady was telling me to leave again, so I motioned to Henry so as to remind her that it's not possible to leave while someone is standing in the door.   Eventually he got out of the way, I patted him on the shoulder and continued leaving. Then, since I didn't have anything else to do while leaving, I handed the attractive bureaucrat a copy of the flyer.  To her credit, she took it and began reading it.

I don't know why they were upset; they wanted me to leave, and I was doing a LOT of leaving.

Once I was out of their office, I felt I had met their demands, but just to be nice I kept backing up for another couple minutes until I was out of their sight and next to the elevator.   I figured I would stand there for maybe fifteen minutes and then do some more leaving.   But pretty soon agents started coming out of the office to see where I was, I guess.  I would nod at them, and they would seem to pretend like they were just passing by on the way downstairs.  They would walk up to the elevator and wait for it to come up.   Since I was standing next to the elevator too, I would just aim the sign at them and look at them from three feet away, and we would stand there not talking for forty or fifty awkward seconds LOL.  Me facing them, them facing the elevator doors and pretending like I wasn't there.

More and more people kept coming out, and then one lady wearing very Federal-looking clothes walked up to a window and looked out.   She started tapping nervously on the window pane as though she were expecting someone to drive up who was instead taking his or her time.

More later...

[d_goddard]

an attractive middle aged lady came into the lobby

MARK! GET DOWN TO THE IRS OFFICE, QUICK!
(after all, you do have a history with ladies who work in government jobs...)

[Dave Ridley]

OK here's the second part of the story.  As I am standing there in the hall the attractive middle aged lady comes out, I think for a second time.  She says "Oh good, you're still here.  The police will be here soon."  She asks "what's your name?"   I just look her and try to appear respectful.

I make a phone call to "Porcupine 911" (Kat) while no one is around and inform her that I could be arrested but probably not.   A few average citizens come and go and eyeball my sign.  An older guy asks me if it is right to work for the government.   I smile at him too.

Henry comes out of the office.  I let him know what's up.  He informs me that, of course, he has got the whole IRS problem solved using whatever his latest incomprehensible approach may be.  He says his method won't bring out the Heat like mine.   But he says he would be happy to help me if I need bailing out or anything.

At this point I've been in the hall about as long as I'd planned to be, 15 minutes.  But I don't really feel like leaving now since that would be backing down to threats, as opposed to backing down to a "leave the property" order.   Unless I've just missed something, no one has yet asked me to leave the building or do anything since I exited the office .

After I have been out there for about a half hour you can tell the agents are really wondering what's taking the cops so long.  Maybe the cops have some of their priorities straight! 

I hear police in the elevator and when the door opens there are two angry looking NPD guys.  I nod at them. Before the doors are even open all the way one of them says I have to leave or I'm gonna get arrested.  They speak with the IRS folks who are eager to tell them about the horrible things I have done and described above.   I don't try to stare them down or anything, I just try to keep a level demeanor and decent eye contact.  I hold the cell phone up and punch the send button to put another call in to Kat, a silent one I guess.  The same officer (J. Conner if I remember his badge right) says turn that off.   I hit the end button.   But he says "did you hear me!!??"  He says  you can't record this; that would be against the law.  Not sure why he thinks a cell call is a recording but anyway he then says "leave!"   I point at the elevator doors which are closed and the "down" button which is lit.  As the doors open I start moving backward at the usual speed.  They bunch up close to me and glare at me.   I hand a copy of the leaflet to Conner.  He refuses to take it and gets angrier.  Then I hand it to the Quiet Cop (who I can hardly criticize, right?)  Of course he also refuses to take it.  So I open it and hold it up and aim the text at them as the elevator drops. 

Connor says "You think I am reading that???"  At this point I guess I should have held it in front of my face to give him nothing else to look at but that didn't really occur to me.  When the door opens Connor barks at me some more but I think I do a pretty good job of keeping my speed the same.   He says "HURRY UP!!"   I'm not really all that scared this time like I was on the last one, or at least I'm not shaking much. Maybe I'm getting used to this.  But my heart is beating fast enough.   

He says "You're trying my patience buddy!"  I don't react much.  It does occur to me though that he might shove me, which would be bad for me and good for freedom.  Connor if you're reading this feel free to post any corrections if you think I am not relaying this "conversation" accurately.  When we finally get outside he says "For future reference wiretapping is a felony."  He says something like if you try to come back after we leave you're getting arrested.  If it's not on official business.  I assume he's referring to the IRS office not the entire building or parking lot since there are other businesses in there.   

He says put your shield down!  Referring to the sign.  I don't put it down but I aim it away so he can see my full torso, that there are no threats behind the sign.  Then I aim it at him again and keep both hands visible.   IRS agents start coming out of the building and watching.  Then the cops stop standing in front of me and stay put.  The Quiet Cop says something that makes Connor laugh.   I'm now fifty feet away and getting another foot away every second.  I wave at them.  They go back to talk to the agents. A few minutes later once off the property I turn around and walk away.

I don't walk straight back to my car...they still don't even know who I am.  It's not like they couldn?t follow me to the car or find me here...but I figure I'll make 'em work a little for my name if they want it.  Once I do get close to my car a Protective Services (Homeland Security?) vehicle makes a U-Turn right behind me.  I wave at them while they're still facing me.  They ignore me and head to the IRS building and are still there half an hour later.

I don't feel all that comfortable about triggering a police response, since that triggers taxpayer expenditure...but I didn't feel right about leaving the building right after they called the police either. 

[KBCraig]

I don't feel all that comfortable about triggering a police response, since that triggers taxpayer expenditure...but I didn't feel right about leaving either. 

You didn't trigger the police response, Dave. You did good. The folks who pulled the trigger were those inside the office who couldn't deal with a peaceful protest.

Kevin

[mraaron]

Connor if you're reading this feel free to post any corrections if you think I am not relaying this "conversation" accurately.  When we finally get outside he says "For future reference wiretapping is a felony."  He says something like if you try to come back after we leave you're getting arrested.  If it's not on official business.  I assume he's referring to the IRS office not the entire building or parking lot since there are other businesses in there.

   Connor, you need to recognize redress of grievances as "official business".   I think its in some paperwork you don't use titled "US Constitution".  Hope that helps. Welcome to the forum.

[Braddogg]

Thank you, Dave.  Hope you don't mind if I copy your tactic.