Rescinding membership in Free State Project

[eques]

Okay, I know, I said I wouldn't feed the troll, but can you explain how, having blasted Iran back to the stone age, the United States government will not incur feelings of hostility and resentment from the survivors?  That is to say, put yourself in their shoes for just a moment.  No matter how bad your current government is, if a foreign power came in and started destroying cities and indiscriminately killing civilians, you wouldn't care much for that foreign power.  At least you were able to live your life under your current government--you didn't have to worry that you might face a death squad around the next corner due to an accident of nationality.

Or are you saying that they had damn well better not be hostile because we had done them a huge favor?

Furthermore, with the way you keep pushing Koppel, it just sounds weird to me.  Why will Ted Koppel have anything significant to say about the nation of Iran that hasn't already been pointed out by hundreds--if not thousands--of people?  Also, how do you know that Koppel will end up supporting your case?  I highly doubt that Koppel will support the extremism of your last post, much less war in general.

He may warn that Iran is a country that is about to explode (literally), but you can't ignore the fact that there are many mitigating factors in which in the United States government has poked and prodded and irritated Iran over the last several decades.

The United States government may shield a country that is better than most in many respects, but that does not by any means make it faultless or guiltless.

In any case, I highly doubt you'll take my comments seriously and respond with due consideration, so I'm guessing you'll probably continue to be rather uninteresting.

[Rocketman]

Okay, I know, I said I wouldn't feed the troll, but can you explain how, having blasted Iran back to the stone age, the United States government will not incur feelings of hostility and resentment from the survivors?  That is to say, put yourself in their shoes for just a moment.  No matter how bad your current government is, if a foreign power came in and started destroying cities and indiscriminately killing civilians, you wouldn't care much for that foreign power.  At least you were able to live your life under your current government--you didn't have to worry that you might face a death squad around the next corner due to an accident of nationality.

This is why we need to find the moral clarity to do what needs to be done and kill them all.   

[Ear]

Anyone with an opposable thumb could pick up a club and use it to destroy our freedumb.  In fact, you yourself could spaz out and stick a pair of scissors into your own eye without warning.

The only answer is to kill everyone and destroy Earth.  It's the only way to be sure that insurgent factions of cockroaches and the evil freedumb-hating hordes of single-celled religious fanatics won't rise up and turn all freedumb-lovers into slaves and living toilets, forced to kneel and bow towards Mecca.

Objectivist, make that collect call to the Pentagon immediately, before it's too late!  Everyone else, kiss your butt goodbye and thank God we still have our freedumb.  Once we're all dead and Earth is safe, we can start planning our strategy for the war in Heaven.

[Objectivist]

Okay, I know, I said I wouldn't feed the troll, but can you explain how, having blasted Iran back to the stone age,

they're already in a stone age.

the United States government will not incur feelings of hostility and resentment from the survivors? 

Is that what happened in Germany and Japan?

That is to say, put yourself in their shoes for just a moment.  No matter how bad your current government is, if a foreign power came in and started destroying cities and indiscriminately killing civilians, you wouldn't care much for that foreign power. 

In their shoes, right? So I live in a nation that has d clared Jihaad against America, attacked and burned Americ'a embassy, killing, wounding and taking captive the inhabitants of the embassy, and has declared to the world that America is the great Satan and Americans should be pursued and killed in every nation on earth.

If I lived in that nation, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear bombs come any minute of the day. And who could blame the American's for self-defense?

Why will Ted Koppel have anything significant to say about the nation of Iran that hasn't already been pointed out by hundreds--if not thousands--of people?  Also, how do you know that Koppel will end up supporting your case?  I highly doubt that Koppel will support the extremism of your last post, much less war in general.

Koppel surely doesn't support my views, but the real problem is that everyone here, including you, seems to think Iran is minding their own business. THEY HATE US AND WANT US TO DIE A HORRIBEL DEATH. I feel like a Jew in Berlin, 1935. Look at the friggin evidence, people.

He may warn that Iran is a country that is about to explode (literally), but you can't ignore the fact that there are many mitigating factors in which in the United States government has poked and prodded and irritated Iran over the last several decades.

Ok, so we've provoked them. We gave Saddam all kinds of weapons to attack them in the Iran-Iraq war and we put Saddam in power and we armed Al Queda in the Afgahn war against Russia and we did lots of other stupid stuff.

The answer isn't to let Iran get nukes. The answer is to try to stop future atrooctities like supporting dictators or letting dictators get even more power.

We have a right to self-defense.

I can't believe how pacifist and clueless everyone is about the threat of Islam. I am astonished.

That's why you should watch Koppel - or at least visit the website if you don't have cable.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6493938

Just so you realize IRAN HATES US AND WANTS US ALL TO DIE. For whatever reason (mainly their religion) but we have a right to self defense.

Objectivist

[Dreepa]

Just so you realize IRAN HATES US AND WANTS US ALL TO DIE. For whatever reason (mainly their religion) but we have a right to self defense.

Objectivist

Ok but how does that make us help make NH a better place to live?
If you are not concerned with helping things in NH  I guess I miss your point.

Have you joined the military yet to help stop them?
Have you warned Washington?

[Objectivist]

Just so you realize IRAN HATES US AND WANTS US ALL TO DIE. For whatever reason (mainly their religion) but we have a right to self defense.

Objectivist

Ok but how does that make us help make NH a better place to live?
If you are not concerned with helping things in NH  I guess I miss your point.

Have you joined the military yet to help stop them?
Have you warned Washington?

Washington knows. Why do yo think we fabricated evidence in order to occupy the nation on the western border of IraNNN? Look at a map; we've got Iran surrounded.

As for NH, what good will it do us to get 20,000 liberty lovers together and then cave-in to Sharia Law because "The iranians have a right to nukes." That won't seem reasonable anymore when American women are required to wear a burkha in a century or two.

LONG TERM VIEW: Iran is the moscow of religion. Get your gun.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?id=51

Objectivist

[anthonybpugh]

and as soon as you have a bunch of Iranians running across the Rio Grande with AKs, then we can start a war with them.  Not before. 

[Rocketman]

and as soon as you have a bunch of Iranians running across the Rio Grande with AKs, then we can start a war with them.  Not before. 

Heh, they already are... dressed as Mexicans.   

[eques]

Objectivist:

Making indirect ad hominem attacks are still ad hominem attacks.  It's one of the surest ways to discredit your argument.

First off, I don't figure that Iran is minding its own business.  I'm painfully aware that the government of Iran has made it clear that it hates the United States and wants to destroy it.  I also realize, however, that this is a conflict that can't be won by just killing people.  It is ideological in nature.  That is to say, you can't kill an ideology by killing those who hold it, because ideologies simply spread too quickly, not to mention that this particular ideology is spread far beyond Iran.  The way to kill an ideology is to starve it of its base, to make it unable to "breed," as it were.

The way to combat an ideology is to combat it with another ideology.  Attempting to combat it with bombs lends a legitimacy to it, however irrational that legitimacy might be.

I think that the best way to combat the ideology of radical jihadist Islam would be to withdraw all implements of aggression.  This will serve to make their claims absurd and bolster individual resistance to the cause.  Second, I would want to have free trade and immigration with Iran.  This will serve to further bolster resistance to their cause, and perhaps even turn the communities against the jihadists as it would make less and less sense to kill a mutual economic benefactor.

As it is, military action and economic sanction on the part of the United States only serve to help the jihadists' cause, because the United States is taking an active role in the persecution of Iran and its citizens.

I want to point out that urging the federal government of the United States to wage war on Iran will only serve to magnify the government's power.  To think otherwise is foolishness, for there are no examples in the history of the United States where powers appropriated during wartime have been relinquished.  I wonder if Ayn Rand would want our increasingly powerful socialist-leaning government to gain any more power.  Yes, it's an appeal to authority, but I think it's one you should consider, Objectivist, unless you can demonstrate why you think Rand was wrong about limiting government power. [Edit] - Er, I might be very wrong about this.  If so, I apologize.

There is a distinct possibility that the withdrawal of aggression will result in an wave of destruction from Iran.  One of the challenges individuals worldwide face is that they have been, by and large, physically and psychologically disarmed (with notable exceptions, of course).  This sort of thing can only be rectified one person at a time... and some people may very well die before they have the ability to take up arms.

So, I would be exceedingly careful before summoning the warhawk to action, especially if you consider that the consequences of going to war are worse than abstaining.

[Spencer]

I can state with great confidence that Iran does NOT have territorial ambitions in the State of New Hampshire.  It is way too cold for them.  Let the frost be your protection.

[Objectivist]

I'm painfully aware that the government of Iran has made it clear that it hates the United States and wants to destroy it.  I also realize, however, that this is a conflict that can't be won by just killing people.

Why? That's how we won WWII.  

It is ideological in nature.  That is to say, you can't kill an ideology by killing those who hold it, because ideologies simply spread too quickly, not to mention that this particular ideology is spread far beyond Iran. 

Why? That's how we won WWII - killed every single nazi and Jap that attacked us, and thousands upon thousands more. Problem solved.

The way to kill an ideology is to starve it of its base, to make it unable to "breed," as it were.

Like the way we "starved" Naziism? Or the way we used ideology to stop communist advance in Korea and vietnam? Oh, wait, we used bombs to stop the commies...

Read up on your history, especially if you're going to proscribe ways of dealing with very serious world problems.

The way to combat an ideology is to combat it with another ideology.  Attempting to combat it with bombs lends a legitimacy to it, however irrational that legitimacy might be.

By this argument, we lent a MASSIVE amount of igitimacy to Naziism and Communism.

What the hell are you talking about? This is ivory tower leftists nonsense.

Withdraw aggrsion from people who want to kill us... Good fucking plan. I wish you were on their side.

Objectivist

[mvpel]

That is to say, you can't kill an ideology by killing those who hold it, because ideologies simply spread too quickly...

They killed enough slaveholders during the Civil War so that the only place that ideaology shows up is when a bunch of inbred sheet-wearing mouth-breathers goes marching down the street under heavy police guard among tens of thousands of infuriated protestors.

They killed enough Nazis so that that ideaology only lurks like bathroom mold in crevices, and rarely shows itself in public except perhaps clinging to the aforementioned inbred mouth-breathers.

They killed enough adherents of the Imperial Godhead of Japan, and nuked two of their cities, so that they gave up that ideaology and became a worldwide economic powerhouse instead of a benighted religious cult.

I don't care if the ideaology of Islamic global jihad doesn't die, it will be enough that its adherents are too weak, pitiful, pathetic, and reviled to make any difference in the world.

[d_goddard]

That is to say, you can't kill an ideology by killing those who hold it, because ideologies simply spread too quickly...

I don't care if the ideaology of Islamic global jihad doesn't die, it will be enough that its adherents are too weak, pitiful, pathetic, and reviled to make any difference in the world.

OK, now I get it. In 2008:
Eques will run for State Rep as a Democrat. He will be fully endorsed by Joel Winters.
Mike P. will run for State Rep as a Republican. He will be fully endorsed by the House Republican Alliance.

I personally hope to have the pleasure of issuing the press release from the NHLA formally endorsing them both!

(meanwhile, of course, Objectivist will still be posting here about how he is STILL going to leave any second now...)

[eques]

Welp...

I was gonna reply with a bunch of stuff... but, man, it's getting late.

I'm under no delusion that I'm going to convince Objectivist of anything.  I mean, it's difficult to talk to somebody when they only read every other word and ignore whole paragraphs.

I'm still curious about what Objectivist thinks about the guaranteed increase of governmental power that Yet Another War would be sure to bring, because, well, I don't know, I thought that Objectivism was about rejecting the ever-increasing demands of the parasites upon the producers, and government is by far the biggest parasite of them all.

You know, I suddenly find myself wondering if my webserver still gets NIMDA hits.  I've had this filter running on my webserver logs all this time that I never gave it another thought.  It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to remove one of the filters, just to see.

Don't worry--I run apache, so it's not like I'm going to get hacked by NIMDA tonight. 

And, wow, I'm running for state rep now?  Heh... yeah, I think I'm still sticking by my platform: Vote for me!  I'll do nothing! 

[d_goddard]

You know, I suddenly find myself wondering if my webserver still gets NIMDA hits

WTF? Where did that come from?