"Zeitgeist"--the Movie

[lowen]

I agree Jaqeboy.

I'm very interested in researching and analyzing the producer's sources for the religion portion of the film.  Religion is something that I was raised with and fell away from a few years ago.  I now see it as another method of control and persecution.  I watched another interesting movie recently (I'll try to find the name and post it here) that analyzed the escalation of fanatacism in Islam as well as in Christianity in recent years.  It was really interesting to see how similar the two religions were.  It was also interesting to note how the two movements were alike and how anti-religious each groups' actions were.  Organized religion is another method of dividing and polarizing the population to gain greater control.  It has been used to coerce normal, rational people to kill each other for centuries. 

Was it The Root of All Evil by Richard Dawkins? I saw it months ago on YouTube in two approx. one hour parts but can't seem to find it right now.

edit: Found it on another site: http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/00004

[KBCraig]

This really belongs in the 9/11 thread, but what the heck...

#1 - The only real justification that was given for the collapse of WTC 7 in this movie was that the "fire cooked the steel".  I'm at work now but when I get home I will try and find the scholarly report I read that proves that an open-air flame can not reach temperatures high enough to weaken steel.

This was not an open-air flame. It was forced-air, from the massive draft. I can (and frequently have, by accident) melt steel with nothing more than wood or charcoal, and a blower.

You don't even need forced air to weaken mild steel to the point that it will sag and collapse. Take a look at the grate in any fireplace that has been used regularly: it sags! If you let ashes build up around your wood stove grate so that there is no air flow to cool the grate, you will burn the grate completely up.

Everyone's explanation (including NIST's) of the collapse of the twin towers concludes that ONLY jet fuel can cause a fire to burn hot enough to weaken steel (and even that is debatable).  There was no jet fuel in WTC 7.

Jet fuel = diesel = kerosene, for all practical purposes. There were generators and diesel storage tanks in WTC 7. Not to mention the countless other flammable substances (wood, fabric, paper, synthetic carpets, plastics... )

The "collapsed in its own footprint" argument is simply bogus. It fell toward the weakened corner (exactly as one would predict), and did extensive damage to neighboring buildings.

Kevin

[armlaw]

I agree Jaqeboy.

I'm very interested in researching and analyzing the producer's sources for the religion portion of the film.  Religion is something that I was raised with and fell away from a few years ago.  I now see it as another method of control and persecution. 

There is much support in both video and print. I have had the Nag Hammadi Library in English since it was  published. It was complied by Dr. James Robinson, Curator of Christian antiquities, Claremont College Claremont California. In any event here is a video that is compatible with the first section of zeitgeist.
Gnostic Media - Our Lady of Light
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Gnostic Media
8 min 14 sec - Jan 10, 2007
www.gnosticmedia.com
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Who is this mysterious woman mentioned in the book of Revelation? Could it be "Eve" from the book of Genesis? Revelation 12 - Our Lady of Guadalupe - Adam and Eve - Genesis - Nag Hammadi - Andrew Rutajit
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[jaqeboy]

What alohamonkey said, but without the Jenga comparison.

I've been involved in hundreds of 9/11 truth debates and I've never thrown that comparison in there until this one.  It was sort of spontaneous.  You didn't like???

No, the guy in the Jenga vid lifted the stack on one side and caused the tilting to that side. Also, comparison to a game makes an apples to oranges comparison that leaves you open to attack. I'd say stick to stats and histories for steel-framed structures.

[jaqeboy]

I agree Jaqeboy.

I'm very interested in researching and analyzing the producer's sources for the religion portion of the film.  Religion is something that I was raised with and fell away from a few years ago.  I now see it as another method of control and persecution.  I watched another interesting movie recently (I'll try to find the name and post it here) that analyzed the escalation of fanatacism in Islam as well as in Christianity in recent years.  It was really interesting to see how similar the two religions were.  It was also interesting to note how the two movements were alike and how anti-religious each groups' actions were.  Organized religion is another method of dividing and polarizing the population to gain greater control.  It has been used to coerce normal, rational people to kill each other for centuries. 

Yeah, to me if a religion is intolerant, it's kind of dysfunctional, in that it creates strife in the world rather than healing it. What is needed is religion that teaches toleration, and public institutions that tolerate different religions. The Quakers (freedom movement heroes of mine) pushed (by their persistence in practicing their beliefs) England to be more religiously liberal and finally into Parliament's official Toleration Act, 24 May 1689: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_Toleration. Before that, the English authorities just burned their churches and imprisoned the people!

[jaqeboy]

This really belongs in the 9/11 thread, but what the heck...
...
The "collapsed in its own footprint" argument is simply bogus. It fell toward the weakened corner (exactly as one would predict), and did extensive damage to neighboring buildings.

All footage I've seen from a distance shows the building sinking straight down, not towards any corner: http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/b7/videos.html.

The video footage (clandestinely shot - secured area) in Improbable Collapse shows that not a piece of 7 hit the Post office (at street level) across the street (West Broadway, on right side, when looking at the front of WTC7, ie when standing in Vesey Street).

This pic of the rubble pile of WTC7 shows some apparent damage the bldg in the back (across Barclay Street) and to the left and right (maybe some damage to bldg on right) - smoke obscures the view of WTC 6 across Vesey Street, but it was heavily damaged from the collapse of the top of WTC1: http://wtc7.net/rubblepile.html

This pic (not sure from what direction) shows the building leaning into its footprint: http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/b7/imploded.html

This one shows very little damage to left or right, but some apparent damage to 30 West Broadway building in the back, across Barclay Street: http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/b7/collateral.html

Do you have some links to pics that show extensive damage to neighboring buildings?

[jaqeboy]

I know, I'm the one that suggested moving this, but...

...
This was not an open-air flame. It was forced-air, from the massive draft....

Kevin

To what are you referring here? Where was there a massive draft in WTC7? Just want to know if you have some line on something I have not heard about.

[KBCraig]

I know, I'm the one that suggested moving this, but...

...
This was not an open-air flame. It was forced-air, from the massive draft....

Kevin

To what are you referring here? Where was there a massive draft in WTC7? Just want to know if you have some line on something I have not heard about.

Where? Ummm... everywhere. Big fire in what amounts to a large chimney, means massive draft.

[error]

In other words, one of those obvious truths that only "9/11 truthers" miss?

[alohamonkey]

I know, I'm the one that suggested moving this, but...

...
This was not an open-air flame. It was forced-air, from the massive draft....

Kevin

To what are you referring here? Where was there a massive draft in WTC7? Just want to know if you have some line on something I have not heard about.

Where? Ummm... everywhere. Big fire in what amounts to a large chimney, means massive draft.

I'm not following you here man.

[error]

Fires consume oxygen from the air. This creates a pressure differential, with lower pressure in the vicinity of the fire. Therefore, you get air movement. I learned this in elementary school.

[Insurgent]

For the sake of ease of discussion, general 9/11 related arguments should really be discussed in the appropriate thread http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=1747.0

except where it directly relates to the film "Zeitgeist" 

[Insurgent]

Oh, not nearly as many as I see in this thread, in Zeitgeist, in Loose Change, etc...

After you finished watching "Zeitgeist", which techniques of propaganda did you find to be employed in it?

Error, perhaps you didn't see my response from your statement, buried from a couple days ago. I'm really curious to learn your findings 

[jaqeboy]

For the sake of ease of discussion, general 9/11 related arguments should really be discussed in the appropriate thread http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=1747.0

except where it directly relates to the film "Zeitgeist" 

OK, OK, you're right - keep getting sucked in - moving my part over to the other thread.

[jaqeboy]

OK, moved the discussion about WTC7 fire with KB Craig and alohamonkey over to the other thread and zipping my lip about it here.

http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=1747.0