I was banned from Murphy's Taproom

[TresJay]

I know an "exotic dancer" that has worked in a variety of "theaters".

Some places pay $10 or $20 per 20 minute set.

Some places pay $20 per set but charge the dancer for two $20 "private sessions".  If the dancer doesn't get requests for a private session, she still owes the house their 50% cut ($20).

Some places charge the dancer $100 per shift for stage/dressing room rental, and don't pay anything to the dancer.

Would anyone care to guess which dancers take home the most green?  Any ideas about which places do the most business?

The market works if you let it.

[mackler]

I know an "exotic dancer" that has worked in a variety of "theaters".

Some places pay $10 or $20 per 20 minute set.

Some places pay $20 per set but charge the dancer for two $20 "private sessions".  If the dancer doesn't get requests for a private session, she still owes the house their 50% cut ($20).

Some places charge the dancer $100 per shift for stage/dressing room rental, and don't pay anything to the dancer.

Would anyone care to guess which dancers take home the most green?  Any ideas about which places do the most business?

The market works if you let it.

Every  stripper I ever dated (or even knew) worked in the clubs where she had to pay the house to work there and she kept whatever else she made.  Let's just say that when I picked her up after work, "drinks" were on her.

[KBCraig]

I'm thinking he may be the catalyst that brings change to a sick industry.  I have yet had it explained to me why this industry doesn't pay it's employees full salaries like most businesses.

The only reason they're paid by the restaurant at all, is because the government says they must. And they're paid a certain minimum amount, so that the government can then withhold effectively 100% of that, for income taxes.

Otherwise, waiters would be independent contractors, making tips only. In good restaurants with good food, good clientele and high demand, waiters, like strippers, would pay to work there in order to make more in tips. (And I understand that in some exclusive markets in NYC, that's already the case, if not entirely legal.)

[Peacemaker]

Wow, what a debate!  10+ years in the biz here so here goes...

Is it not a super nice thing to be able to go out to eat and have someone WAIT on you for your every whim, after working a long day?

1) Waiters and Waitresses WAIT on people (I hate the term server as it implies all someone does is bring out a plate of food and give it too you ).  They make sure the place is clean while they wait for you to show up, then they are going to have a pleasant demeanor, even though they may be a little tired that day, they wait for you to decide to order, they take your order, they order your food from the kitchen, they wait for your food from the kitchen to be prepared so they can bring it out to you HOT and in a TIMELY manner, they check with you again to see if you need anything else (suddenly you want Ranch for your fries, but you didn't mention it before so now they have to remember one thing and make yet another trip to your table because your brain was lazy), and then they WAIT again to see if you need anything else and they do this with numerous people, all at once, until finally you decide, you're going to leave.  Finally, they collect your money and then clean up after you as well, often having to touch scraps of your food that it's just not possible to avoid sometimes, just like when you were a baby and your Mom got her hands dirty cleaning up your leftover food. 

Now, if you told the average person you're going to do all the above tasks and I"m going to pay you 3 bucks an hour to offer this service to a bunch of strangers, one thing would be true...NO ONE WOULD DO IT.  When a Waiter or Waitress takes the job, they know they are not really going to be paid 3 bucks an hour.  Rather, it's going to be alot more like more than 10+ an hour and usually more like 15 plus, plus., depending on the type of restaurant.

In addition, all Waitstaff must also pay a mandatory 15% on all their sales, so when your tip dips below 15%, you are actaully taxing them even more because they have to pay 15% to Uncle Sam, whether or not you tipped it or not.,  due to your ignorance.  Now it's one thing to get a tip for 10% for really crappy service and I totatally understand that (shit happens, the kitchen could have ran out of something, they had to make more, the food took way too long to come out).  And it's also another thing to get someone who doesn't understand and thinks they have a right to stiff you.  I got one tip once that was so small, I refused it (but I don't recommend doing this!  It was a room charge and they wouldn't see it till the next day, and it was on master bill with several nights room, meals, etc., as the ownership of the place would not like to see that, as it's insulting to the guests)  But generally speaking those people are far and few between.

And if there are a group of individuals who keep showing up and never tip, then that's almost unbelievable, but I don't know the tipping habits of those who frequent Murphys, so I just don't know.     

But if this is the case, I can understand why Keith is trying to take some action, but I find his behavior very out of the ordinary.  And if he's altering credit cards and adjusting tips, then that's really quite surprising as well as you can not do that, period.

And in addition, if he is instructing his customers to the amount that they have to tip and saying 20% is the amount they must tip... well that's yet another thing I have never heard of and I would find it quite insulting myself.  It's very standard that large parties (almost always the number is 8 or more) will get a 20% standard tip added, but that's if they are all one party, they all sit down at the same time, everyone orders at the same time...not a bunch of people, coming and going, mulling about, all ordering mostly drinks and moving around.   It's one night, Tues, mostly from 6-10 seems when most people are there and I just see it as the waitstaff having to take one on the chin, if the tipping isn't so great because everyone is consuming something.  Sounds like there could be a few super cry babies on the waitstaff as well.


But, if it's true, one option is everyone just start paying 2.50 a beer (dig those quarters out of your car)  Another option would be to open up the Back Room for FSPers only.  Charge 2.50 a beer (tip included/that's a 25% tip) for a beer.  Get rid of the waitstaff and have everyone go up to the bar to get their drinks.  And for food, I would create a menu where people would order by writing/marking (circle) what they want, then the paper orders could then inputed when the one bartender has time and add 15% tip (not including gov. confiscation tax) for all food, because who ever rings it in to the kitchen, must pay the tax (unless Keith does and keeps it off the Waitstaff's taxes.)   FSPers could look at it as "we get the back, room, it's private for us, kindof like a banquet function, so these prices have been created to keep things simple." 

And of course, the other option is to pick a different place where you feel welcome. 


Bottomline though, and Ian said it best, if you can't afford to tip, you should not be going out to eat, (where you have people waiting on you).  It's simply not fair to take advantage of people like that.  And if you still don't get it, then just try waiting tables sometime (good luck with that one) and you'll get it real fast.

[Russell Kanning]

since people in the "biz" can write volumes about our responsibilities to waitstaff .... why don't they just put the prices on the menu, so we won't mess up?

also ... I have had very few experiences where a waiter "waits" on my every whim ... maybe I could write a few paragraphs about what I expect to be "customary" waitstaff responsibilities

[Peacemaker]

By prices do you mean, build the tip in?    If that's what you mean, then that's what you get when you go to Village Pizza and order food over a counter, Fast Food, etc.  But alot of people want more than that and so that's just how it has evolved over the years. 

I'm not in the biz anymore and I didn't make this tipping thing up, I'm just trying to enlighten those who don't understand how it works. 
The first history of tipping was people would tip, when they firist sat down, if the place was busy, that way the ones who put the most money in the jar, would get service first.

I don't like to tip.  I actually hate to tiip and that's why I don't go out to eat very often. 

"Whim" was not the exact correct word to use, (big deal!), but I think you got the point.   I understand what you are saying about being "waited" on.  In reality, alot of people who do the job these days really could be considered servers, as the gov. education has dumbed everyone down so much it's as if they are walking robots.

And go ahead and write a couple parargraphs about what you think the service should be, I'd love to see it!

[Caleb]

I think you made the point that a lot of people aren't getting:  The tipping custom evolved for those establishments that have a "dining experience", a place where you can go for complete service. I like it because I can sit there and read or talk to friends without having to constantly get up and get more food or drink (as at a buffet) or without clogging every artery in my body (like McDonalds). They are more upscale usually, so the prices are naturally higher, and the service is a part of the dining experience.

If you don't want "the dining experience" simply don't go to an establishment that offers it (you will readily recognize these places because you will not have access to anything, a server will provide it for you.) 

But why go to an establishment that offers the "dining experience" (with the understood custom that the customer will compensate his server) and shit on their parade by trying to pretend that you are in a place that doesn't have that experience or custom? It doesn't make any sense. Why kick against the goads? If you don't like to tip, McDonalds, Subway, and #1 Lucky Buffet (the one where you get your own drink) are more than happy to serve you on those terms? Why antagonize an establishment where tipping is expected?  I really, truly, don't get it.

[Peacemaker]

To Mike B!

I must say I have been guilty of making a ton of mistakes in my life, have certainly been misunderstood way too many times and have been misunderstood more times than I care to remember and so I can understand why you could think like you do. 

I think you got thrown under the Bus and were treated disrecpectfully as I have never heard of an owner banning someone when they were part of a large group of people, who have given an establishment a hell of alot of business and helped them make ends meet, when they were first starting.

I can only hope that you will get an apology (as well as the others who were banned) and be welcomed back.  Till then, I'd be happy to meet with you any place else for a Drink and some Apps!  And if you still can't get yourself to tip, don't worry, I"ll cover you pardner because you truly are a good man, have done alot in the name of bringing more liberty to the forefront and it upsets me that you treated this way. 

All the Best to You!





 

[lastlady]

I'm thinking he may be the catalyst that brings change to a sick industry.  I have yet had it explained to me why this industry doesn't pay it's employees full salaries like most businesses.

I agree!!! But it must be different in every State. In California all servers get at least minimum wage.

[lastlady]

To Mike B!
I think you got thrown under the Bus and were treated disrecpectfully as I have never heard of an owner banning someone when they were part of a large group of people, who have given an establishment a hell of alot of business and helped them make ends meet, when they were first starting.

I find it interesting that the owner has denied the ban, he states that he told Mike to not eat at his restaurant if he doesn't intend on tipping, but that he didn't ban him. I also find it interesting that at the 2 FSP owned restaurants in NH, they both give discounts to the police and fire departments, but no discounts to the FSP members who have without a doubt contributed heavily to the success of the establishments.

I am a tipper but I whenever I get shitty service I always think with a smile, go ahead save me money 

You sit down and order. Someone drops off your food and you never see them again except when they drop off your check. That's about 5 minutes of service. What's that worth?

[Kat Kanning]

I find it interesting that the owner has denied the ban, he states that he told Mike to not eat at his restaurant if he doesn't intend on tipping, but that he didn't ban him. I also find it interesting that at the 2 FSP owned restaurants in NH, they both give discounts to the police and fire departments, but no discounts to the FSP members who have without a doubt contributed heavily to the success of the establishments.

Hear hear! 

[penguins4me]

Can SOMEONE please answer Dale's question:  What principle of honor are you violating by tipping?

I'm extremely interested in an answer to this question.

Disclaimer: I tip due to it being the custom and as both a reward and compensation for service; I am often a generous tipper, in that my bills are low (~$15) and my tips are high (~$5) as long as, for example, my drink refills are provided either before I am finished with the previous one, or within a minute or two of being empty. Longer wait times for service prompts me to leave a smaller tip; I haven't had enough experience with horrible service to know what I'd do specifically, aside from simply not leaving a tip (other than a penny or two) and not returning.

[Russell Kanning]

I'm not in the biz anymore and I didn't make this tipping thing up, I'm just trying to enlighten those who don't understand how it works.

if we have to be enlightened .... how much of a custom can it be?

[AntonLee]

... I also find it interesting that at the 2 FSP owned restaurants in NH, they both give discounts to the police and fire departments, but no discounts to the FSP members who have without a doubt contributed heavily to the success of the establishments.

excuse me?  What's that?  I'm sorry?  This is a joke right?  No way, really?  You're kidding?

or how about WTF!?

[dalebert]

I'm probably not going to open any sort of establishment like this anymore, but back when I was considering opening a coffee shop, I was SERIOUSLY considering having a policy of not serving anyone wearing a government uniform. "We'll gladly serve you when you are not wearing the symbols of oppression."