How to help

[Lloyd Danforth]

A 'serious Anarchist' for more than 30 years now, I am also a realist.  I mean, where does an anarchist live?  In their mind? Or in a world where 99.99999% of the inhabitants don't agree with them.  Anarchism is a proper philosophy but a hard row to hoe. If we could get enough people to, just, ignore government, it might go away, but, that isn't going to happen.
As I have said before that short of a catastrophe that many of us either will not survive, or, become so busy staying alive that activism will be a luxury, I doubt we will get any great number of people to move to NH.
Those of us who do move will have to use every method political and non-political, just to avoid a backslide of the freedoms that made us choose NH, much less make headway.

[citizen_142002]

I just wanted to run this poll to remind people of the importance of doing more of the first nine things.  The last three activities are fun, but not as useful for bringing about political change.

The 400 FSPers who are already here will be joined by some of the 700 who've said that they plan to move in the next two years. 

Why haven't these 700 signed the first 1000 pledge? I'm not trying to second guess, but where did you get the 700 figure from exactly?

[Fluff and Stuff]

I just wanted to run this poll to remind people of the importance of doing more of the first nine things.  The last three activities are fun, but not as useful for bringing about political change.

The 400 FSPers who are already here will be joined by some of the 700 who've said that they plan to move in the next two years. 

Why haven't these 700 signed the first 1000 pledge? I'm not trying to second guess, but where did you get the 700 figure from exactly?

Max is talking about the 700 people that may sign the 1st 1000 Pledge.

[Lloyd Danforth]

If we could get enough people to, just, ignore government, it might go away, but, that isn't going to happen.

It might just happen if the alternative system is attractive enough to induce large numbers of people to leave the present one.

Agreed, but, when you combine the general populace's exposure to years of pro-government school, their ignorance of what is being taken from them, their fear of the unknown, and, our inability to get their attention and explain the advantages, for most, in the absence of a controlling government, even shrinking government will be hard, much less eliminating it.

[Dreepa]

I have lived here in NH for over 30 years, and until I found out about the NH Underground, I was ready to move out of this state, as there was no vehicle to truly getting things done.  I was grateful for the FSP, but I am even more deeply thankful for the members of the NH Underground.  After meeting people like Kat, Russell, Dada and others, I changed my mind about moving and said that "This is my home until I die, and I will stand side by side with these folks for the cause of liberty."  I think that says alot about the quality and integrity of most of the people on this forum.  We may not always agree on all subjects, but we're willing to talk about them...and most importantly, act upon them.  The FSP is only the bus...the NH Underground is the frontline, where the action truly happens.  Get on, or get out of the way.

I think that this was Scott's longest post ever.  And he hit it right on the head.

[AlanM]

Agreed, but, when you combine the general populace's exposure to years of pro-government school, their ignorance of what is being taken from them, their fear of the unknown, and, our inability to get their attention and explain the advantages, for most, in the absence of a controlling government, even shrinking government will be hard, much less eliminating it.

The obstacles you list are formidable. but not insurmountable. The key is in getting the alternative system into place and making it work now. If this new system is truly attractive then those who come into contact with it will be able to observe the benefits firsthand. Displaying a working anarchistic system is a much more effective recruitment tool than trying to "explain the advantages", especially in internet forums. The larger the system grows, the more who will be exposed to it.

We have started the Freedom Friends Tuath as just such an alternative.

[FrankChodorov]

Agreed, but, when you combine the general populace's exposure to years of pro-government school, their ignorance of what is being taken from them, their fear of the unknown, and, our inability to get their attention and explain the advantages, for most, in the absence of a controlling government, even shrinking government will be hard, much less eliminating it.

The obstacles you list are formidable. but not insurmountable. The key is in getting the alternative system into place and making it work now. If this new system is truly attractive then those who come into contact with it will be able to observe the benefits firsthand. Displaying a working anarchistic system is a much more effective recruitment tool than trying to "explain the advantages", especially in internet forums. The larger the system grows, the more who will be exposed to it.

We have started the Freedom Friends Tuath as just such an alternative.

for it to be acceptible to the vast number of people you need an alternative system of currency that is easy to use...

I would suggest that folks check out Ripple Pay a Decentralized Peer-to-Peer Currency and Payment System...

http://ripple.sourceforge.net/

excerpt:
Ripple is a monetary system based on trust that already exists between people in real-world social networks. By cutting out the institutional middlemen, Ripple is both more community-oriented and more efficient as a means of exchange.

National monetary systems rely on trust in large financial institutions. A bank account balance, stored as electronic bits in a computer, represents a promise by the bank to pay the account holder. That promise is only meaningful if the bank is trustworthy. Banks, in turn, leverage those deposits to issue new money by making loans to trustworthy individuals as determined by an often labour-intensive screening process.

Ripple cuts the banks right out of the picture by allowing anyone to act as a bank and grant credit within the Ripple system to anyone they know. The system keeps track of the source of all IOUs, so that debts that are not repaid are automatically borne by the issuer.
Banking and the Trusted Intermediary

Banking was invented to solve the problem of the trusted intermediary: I'd like to buy something from you on credit, but you don't know if my credit is good, so you can't accept my IOU. If we can find someone who you trust, and I can obtain their IOU, I can use it to pay you. Goldsmiths were trusted by everyone in the region because they held gold in their vaults, and so they were natural candidates for a trusted intermediaries. The catch was, you had to obtain their IOU, which was the original paper money, either by borrowing it at interest, or by earning it from someone who already had it.

We have become so used to our banking system, we do not realize that any trusted intermediary will do. For example, a mutual friend might vouch for me by agreeing to assume the debt if I failed to repay. We might even arrange for the mutual friend to simply assume the debt so that I could just pay her. In general, a chain of more than one trusted intermediaries, each a mutual, trusted friend between the previous and the next, works the same way.
How Does Ripple Work?

Ripple is based on a simple idea that has only recently become feasible, thanks to computer technology and the internet. Each participant indicates which other participants he or she trusts, by offering to accept their IOUs up to a certain amount, like a line of credit. To make a payment to someone who trusts you, you simply adjust your IOU balance with them to indicate that that you owe them the amount of the payment.

To pay someone who doesn't trust you, the Ripple system finds a chain of credit connections between you and the payment recipient. Then you pay the first person in the chain, who pays the second person, and so on until the recipient gets paid.

This is exactly what happens when someone writes a normal cheque. Their bank deducts from his account (which is his IOU balance with the bank), and pays the central bank, who credits the recipient's bank, who further credits the recipient's account. In other words, the payer gives some of his bank's IOUs back to his bank, his bank gives some of the central bank's IOUs (national currency) back to the central bank, who passes them along to the recipient's bank, who issues its own IOUs (bank account digits) to the recipient.

Note that all three intermediaries are banks. Ripple lets everyone act like a bank.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Agreed, but, when you combine the general populace's exposure to years of pro-government school, their ignorance of what is being taken from them, their fear of the unknown, and, our inability to get their attention and explain the advantages, for most, in the absence of a controlling government, even shrinking government will be hard, much less eliminating it.

The obstacles you list are formidable but not insurmountable. The key is in getting the alternative system into place and making it work now. If this new system is truly attractive then those who come into contact with it will be able to observe the benefits firsthand. Displaying a working anarchistic system is a much more effective recruitment tool than trying to "explain the advantages", especially in internet forums. The larger the system grows, the more who will be exposed to it.

What is your evidence that it is not insurmountable?  The alternative system that you speak of is illegal.  Where do you plan on conducting it?

[AlanM]

What is your evidence that it is not insurmountable?  The alternative system that you speak of is illegal.  Where do you plan on conducting it?

How can you say it is illegal when he never said what it is? Is the Freedom Friends Tuath illegal?

[Michael Fisher]

This list does not include nonviolent noncooperation.

What kind of list IS this?   ???

[Jason Rand]

Hi all.  I am a native of NH, and I've recently met some of you in Manchester and Concord meetings.  I want to help ensure that the First 1000 Pledge is successful.   

Towards that goal I have decided to take two steps, for now.  First, I have started a blog, and I am encouraging other people to start blogs too.  You can check out my Meta-Pledge on my new blog freestatenative.blogspot.com.   I'm hoping that current and new bloggers will support me and link to my 'Linkbait for Liberty'. 

The second thing I will be doing is joining Toastmasters International so that I can become more comfortable speaking in public.     The first meeting in my area is on the 26th of this month.  I will blog about that experience. 

I can blog about public speaking, and speak in public (at the TI meetings) about blogging.  Now, if I can only get some other people to blog and speak about me blogging and speaking, so that I can blog and speak about them...

Never mind.  I see that the number in NH just went down from 400 to 399.  I hope I didn't have something to do with that

[Lloyd Danforth]

What is your evidence that it is not insurmountable?  The alternative system that you speak of is illegal.  Where do you plan on conducting it?

How can you say it is illegal when he never said what it is? Is the Freedom Friends Tuath illegal?

The discussion started with being a serious anarchist.  I maintained that to consistantly live as an anarchist, in other words, to ignore the government would land you in jail.
Your Truath is a club.

[Kat Kanning]

Let us know when your pledgebank pledge is up, Jason.  Thanks for the ideas!!

[maxxoccupancy]

I just wanted to run this poll to remind people of the importance of doing more of the first nine things.  The last three activities are fun, but not as useful for bringing about political change.

The 400 FSPers who are already here will be joined by some of the 700 who've said that they plan to move in the next two years. 

Why haven't these 700 signed the first 1000 pledge? I'm not trying to second guess, but where did you get the 700 figure from exactly?

The FSP polled members at some point (I forget the url) and asked when they planned to move.  692 responed that they already planned to move within the next two years.  I forget the rest of the details.  I believe that a few thousand said that they would wait for the full 20,000.  At our current rate of growth, that's somewhere around 2027.

I would be happy with 1,000 dedicated activists.

--Max