Boycott "Margaritas Management Group" Restaurants?

[Pat McCotter]

Keene was the first NH city to ban smoking in restaurants.

Keene's Smoking Ban One Year Later
Reported by Carolyn Martin on Friday, February 21, 2003

The city of Keene is marking the first anniversary of its smoking ban for restaurants.
The past year hasn't been a completely smooth transition, but now restaurant owners and diners seem to have adjusted to the city law, as Carolyn Martin of the Keene Sentinel reports.

Audio and rough transcript available at the above link.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.

[Pat McCotter]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.

No! Call in OSHA! That's what we pay our taxes for!

[KBCraig]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

No, it's just the excuse.

[Thespis]

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

And, that has also been refuted, something the anti-smoking people ignore.

[DC]

I allready started boycotting them when I read what Shawn Joyce said. That was before I read this thread. The lazy bastards arn't open for lunch anyway.

[Incrementalist]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.

It's a touchy subject when you're talking about unskilled labor like much of the help in a restaurant/bar.  So long as the government interferes in the economy via excessive regulation they create a buyer's market for labor - more to the point the government creates a paradigm wherein there are fewer jobs than people.  So unskilled workers don't always have the opportunity to leave a job and find employment elsewhere.

I don't agree with how this argument is framed, but many in the general public do.  Telling them that workers can leave if they don't like it doesn't fly.  A better approach is to explain WHY there is a buyer's market for unskilled labor and how we can fix it.

[Incrementalist]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

No, it's just the excuse.

Excuse or not, we're not in the position to determine what is at the center of the public discourse.  If that's how they want to frame the debate, then that's the framework in which we must operate if we ever want to change things.

[Incrementalist]

The Keene anti-smoking ordinance has been found unenforceable, because the state has not passed that authority onto the towns and cities.  So, even though the ordinance is on the books, it's meaningless.

Correct, some brave restaurant owner in Keene needs to step up and file suit in court so the city ordinance can be overturned.

[Lloyd Danforth]

Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws.  People will vote with their feet.

Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers.  That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.

If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.

It's a touchy subject when you're talking about unskilled labor like much of the help in a restaurant/bar.  So long as the government interferes in the economy via excessive regulation they create a buyer's market for labor - more to the point the government creates a paradigm wherein there are fewer jobs than people.  So unskilled workers don't always have the opportunity to leave a job and find employment elsewhere.

I don't agree with how this argument is framed, but many in the general public do.  Telling them that workers can leave if they don't like it doesn't fly.  A better approach is to explain WHY there is a buyer's market for unskilled labor and how we can fix it.

The market for labor skilled or unskilled varies depending on the economy.  When there is a shortage of labor and a good economy, the shoe is on the other foot and labor calls the shots. I remember in the early eighties in the Hartford area McDonalds was offering $6.00 an hour to start, due to the shortage of entry level labor.

[Incrementalist]

The market for labor skilled or unskilled varies depending on the economy.  When there is a shortage of labor and a good economy, the shoe is on the other foot and labor calls the shots. I remember in the early eighties in the Hartford area McDonalds was offering $6.00 an hour to start, due to the shortage of entry level labor.

True, but the shortages of labor you speak about are the exception, not the standard, especially in the restaurant and bar industries.  Two associates of mine have owned or operated restaurants, one in a rural NY town and one in a posh suburb of NYC, and to my knowledge neither have ever had to make concessions to attract employees.

[Lloyd Danforth]

No, there is no standard. Sometimes there is a shortage of labor and sometimes there is a surplus. I have been observing the US economy for 35 years. I have seen college grads pumping gas and I have seen people with 5th grade educations offered apprenticeships in manufacturing for real good starting money.  It always depended on the condition of the economy at the time.
I agree the condition of the economy at any given time probably is probably, the result of government fucking around with interest rates, inflation and war, but, employers do not always call the shots.  That  is a myth, perpetuated by the 'economics' challenged left.

[Russell Kanning]

In our town almost every restaurant is looking for workers.

Correct, some brave restaurant owner in Keene needs to step up and file suit in court so the city ordinance can be overturned.

...or just ignore the "law". I am sure there are many laws covering my business, but I don't bother with them.
The American Colonists didn't win by filing suit in British courts ..... neither did the Kelo 7 .... nor will we.

[Kat Kanning]

Anyone want to write a short explaination of the boycott for the Keene Free Press?  (today )

[Incrementalist]

No, there is no standard. Sometimes there is a shortage of labor and sometimes there is a surplus. I have been observing the US economy for 35 years. I have seen college grads pumping gas and I have seen people with 5th grade educations offered apprenticeships in manufacturing for real good starting money.  It always depended on the condition of the economy at the time.

Manufacturing can involve skilled labor, hence the offers.  I've seen quite a few initiatives to get labor into manufacturing and trades.  But I don't think many places will offer an apprenticeship for waiting tables or flipping burgers.  I don't want to make it sound like I'm contesting your claim, because I've seen labor markets that favor employees as well, but compared to the contrary they're few and far between.

I agree the condition of the economy at any given time probably is probably, the result of government fucking around with interest rates, inflation and war, but, employers do not always call the shots.  That  is a myth, perpetuated by the 'economics' challenged left.

You're right, as I stated in my previous post, they don't always call the shots.  But they often call the shots.