Republic of NH

[tracysaboe]

Your "Vermont" secessionist movement is largely a socialist movement.

We don't want NH confederating with that. Or any of the other socialist secessionist movements you want to confederate with.

Again, brush up on your reading comprehension.

Tracy

[Russell Kanning]

Walter Williams:
"There is a glimmer of hope in the horizon," Williams said after mentioning how the balanced budget amendment that he co-authored with several other prominent thinkers failed to pass Congress in the 1980s and 90s. That hope is the Free State Project, a private group of conservatives and libertarians that are attempting to woo 20,000 like-minded citizens to move to New Hampshire. Once there, they will restore a government that only protects individual liberties in both state and federal government.
Williams also voiced his support for the possibility of state secession. "There would have been no union if states didn't believe they had the right to secede," he said. Without secession, "then there's no limit to what the federal government can do. It's like telling my wife that she can't divorce me."

http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17272218&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=6

[FrankChodorov]

Your "Vermont" secessionist movement is largely a socialist movement.

We don't want NH confederating with that. Or any of the other socialist secessionist movements you want to confederate with.

Again, brush up on your reading comprehension.

if it was a "socialist" secessionist movement then why have Thomas DiLorenzo & Marco Bassani from the Von Mises Institute...

Marco Bassani on Jefferson:
http://www.mises.org/story/964

and Jason Sorens signed on to the Advisory Board?

[tracysaboe]

Because they support secession whether or not it's socialist and they'd like to see a seccessionist movement secede.

I hope they succeded at seceding as well.

That doesn't me we want NH to confederate with them when they do.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

Because they support secession whether or not it's socialist

well you obviously have no idea what the definition of socialism is...

socialism is the state ownership of the means of production (land, labor & capital).

[maineiac]

I don't believe Caleb thinks I am a moron either...

Frank .... you seem like a decent guy ...... but that Bill G fellow ..... what a loon.

hey, loons are an indigenous bird to NH lakes and were featured in the movie "On Golden Pond"...

. . . which, of course, was loosely based on the life of a guy, and filmed on, a lake in Maine, not too far from where I am right now!

I don't think Frank is a moron.

I DO think there is some terribly moronic spelling hereabouts!

[FrankChodorov]

which, of course, was loosely based on the life of a guy, and filmed on, a lake in Maine, not too far from where I am right now!

actually the film was shot on location at Squam Lake in NH.

http://www.nh.gov/film/ogp/bryson_01.htm

I don't think Frank is a moron.

thanks...neither does my wife.

[maineiac]

which, of course, was loosely based on the life of a guy, and filmed on, a lake in Maine, not too far from where I am right now!

actually the film was shot on location at Squam Lake in NH.

http://www.nh.gov/film/ogp/bryson_01.htm

I don't think Frank is a moron.

thanks...neither does my wife.

OK, but written by a guy based on his experiences at this camp right down the road!

???

BTW, Tracy,

Here's the Vermont Independence Resolution. The economic solidarity sounds ominous, but the wording excludes coercion.

All in all, a concept I find more appealing than the FSP. -disclaimer: I am no fan of coercive political systems, but absent a free society of self governors, a devolution to local autonomy seems the least evil.

http://barrysblogsspecialfeatures.blogspot.com/2005/11/vermont-independence-resolution.html

[FrankChodorov]

Here's the Vermont Independence Resolution. The economic solidarity sounds ominous, but the wording excludes coercion.

All in all, a concept I find more appealing than the FSP. -disclaimer: I am no fan of coercive political systems, but absent a free society of self governors, a devolution to local autonomy seems the least evil.

btw - the link you provided does not have the updated version...

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/about

Members of the Second Vermont Republic subscribe to the following set of principles:

   1. Political Independence. Our primary objectives are political independence for Vermont and the peaceful dissolution of the Union.
   2. Human Scale. We believe life should be lived on a human scale. Small is still beautiful.
   3. Sustainability. We celebrate and support Vermont's small, clean, green, sustainable, socially responsible towns, farms, businesses, schools, and churches. We encourage family-owned farms and businesses to produce innovative, premium-quality, healthy products. We also believe that energy independence is an essential goal towards which to strive.
   4. Economic Solidarity. We encourage Vermonters to buy locally produced products from small local merchants rather than purchase from giant, out-of-state megastores. We support trade with nearby states and provinces.
   5. Power Sharing. Vermont's strong democratic tradition is grounded in its town meetings . We favor devolution of political power from the state back to local communities, making the governing structure for towns, schools, hospitals, and social services much like that of Switzerland. Shared power also underlies our approach to international relations.
   6. Equal Access. We support equal access for all Vermont citizens to quality education, health care, housing, and employment.
   7. Tension Reduction. Consistent with Vermont's long tradition of "live and let live" and nonviolence, we do not condone state-sponsored violence inflicted either by the military or law enforcement officials. We support a voluntary citizens' brigade to reduce tension and restore order in the event of political unrest and to provide assistance when natural disasters occur. We are opposed to any form of military conscription. Tension reduction is the bedrock principle on which all international conflicts are to be resolved.
   8. Mutuality. Both our citizens and our neighbors should be treated with mutual respect.

[tracysaboe]

I'm all for local control. But it seems to me the state is incharge of designating the bounderies of the individual "local control" by defining the boundaries and how many shiers they are in accordence with their definitions of existing bio-regions.

I'm sorry, but if the state is defining the boundaries of the decentralization, that still sounds like a lot of State control to me.

Tracy

[FrankChodorov]

I'm all for local control. But it seems to me the state is incharge of designating the bounderies of the individual "local control" by defining the boundaries and how many shiers they are in accordence with their definitions of existing bio-regions.

I'm sorry, but if the state is defining the boundaries of the decentralization, that still sounds like a lot of State control to me.

bio-regions are based on flora and fauna plus watersheds...not political lines.

[tracysaboe]

But a political body is the entity drawing those lines regardless of what they're based on.

Whenever something is done by government, it get's political. The idea that government can do anything "scientifically" reaks of the Scientific socialism that Lenon praised about Communism.

True decentralization is when the decentralized bodies decide on their own what their own boundaries are.

Tracy

[mr.apathy]

I'm all for the secession of NH in any form.  We all must come together and realize that a independant NH would not be one person's vision, but the collective ideas of all those who wish to secede.

An independant NH would need some form of government structure.  If we had no representatives besides the private sector, NH would be raped by all those around us (even more than it already is).  Hell, the US would probably declare us a district rather than a state.  Remember, we are supposed to be the government.  We don't need to elect billionaires to decide issues for us. Towns could vote on issues that concern them, and we all could vote on issues that affect all towns.

For those who reject goverment entirely here is my solution: within the Free NH, you have the right to not be governed if you choose so.  Any piece of property could be declared a "government free zone".  That means no taxes, ultimate privacy, and no rules to dictate what you can or can't do (unless you are violating others constitutional rights). This also means no services, no representation, and it means ultimate personal liability. (Your fuckups are your problems)

I hope this will help bridge the gap between us "socialists" and you "anarchists".  We really do need the ideas of us both to make this thing work.

[FrankChodorov]

I hope this will help bridge the gap between us "socialists" and you "anarchists".  We really do need the ideas of us both to make this thing work.

how do you deal with negative and positive externalities?

[CNHT]

I'm all for local control. But it seems to me the state is incharge of designating the bounderies of the individual "local control" by defining the boundaries and how many shiers they are in accordence with their definitions of existing bio-regions.

I'm sorry, but if the state is defining the boundaries of the decentralization, that still sounds like a lot of State control to me.

Tracy

You got it Tracy. Just because its says "secessionist" on the label, doesn't mean it's going to be free. There is usually some megalomaniac behind it all with a 'plan'.
The FSP is more loosely defined and everyone can work together or as individuals from one group to another. There are no boundaries and no socialistic demands to be met.


Tracy can't spell but he's very smart.