Drama in my neighborhood continues ... Maybe I should just move ...

[Ed]

get a ladder and change the angle of the cameras
get as much video as you can
when you drive in the morning, every time film him intimidating you
video is your friend
you get repeated videos of this guy doing his shit and you've got a serious case - if not for a court then at least for the media (what with the cops not having arrested him)

hire a private detective to look up this other automobile incident, also any possible ties this guy has to cops (which may be why the cops haven't arrested him) - thats what private detectives do

[leetninja]

the only thing that is anything that could even be considered "pre-meditated" is the fact that I will defend myself against attacks.  I will use any force lawful and necessary to defend my well-being and safety and that of my home.  I have not thought about, pre-meditated, or defined what COUNTER-actions I would or could take in any scenario.  I do know that this man scares me, and that I am in fear of my life.  He is a lunatic.  I am not going after anyone and especially not him with any kind of violence at all.  He is the aggressor not me. 

If some dipshit prosecutor wants to try and spin that so be it.  I will tear it to shreds in court if I ever end up there.

[John]

I haven't seen any discussion of the second half of the thread title.
How much drama can you afford?
...
So, how emotionally attached are you to your property?

Over on one of the Buddhist forums, it is not uncommon for a moderator to remind folks of the OP.
In this case, ya, what about the original idea in the subject line?

Sometimes people just dig in their heels and will not budge as they prepare - and escalate - towards war. Sometimes they dig themselves in deeper and deeper and deeper.
But sometimes when you are in a hole, the best thing to do is stop digging.
However, sometimes Peace is not actually the desired outcome; only "WINNING" matters ...

Other times maybe it is just TROLLING in the Civil Disobedience area. Hmm?

"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money"

I went home with a waitress the way I always do
How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?

I was gambling in Havana - I took a little risk
Send lawyers, guns, and money
Dad, get me out of this

An innocent bystander
Somehow I got stuck between a rock and a hard place
And I'm down on my luck
Yes, I'm down on my luck
Well, I'm down on my luck

I'm hiding in Honduras - I'm a desperate man
Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan

Send lawyers, guns, and money...
Warren Zevon Lawyers, Guns and Money

[Ed]

if you do something in self-defense nothing here could be used to make your actions look "pre-meditated". If there is a homicide his (or rather his family's) lawyers could try to make it look like that - pre-meditated murder - but if you DO get convicted of murder, you've already got bigger problems. Eh, what I'm trying to say is it's either self defense, or it's a form of murder.

The reason it could take a lot of money even if you did defend yourself is that, from what I understand, under common law homicide, the killing of a man/woman, is a crime, and the KILLER has to prove that he had a legally allowable reason to kill the other, like self-defense. I may be mistaken, but depending on where you are, an arrest can be standard procedure no matter what the circumstances look like to the cops, and the prosecutor HAS to try you, and then from there you can claim what your exemption was (like self-defense). In other words it's a weird situation where you're sort of guilty until proven innocent even though common law usually works the other way around.

Are you taking videos? take videos. Every single time. Hell, just wear your weapon for safety and walk around outside and record when the guy gets up in your face.

[Russell Kanning]

 
You have to play the game and the bureaucrats make the rules .

why do you have to play their game and by their rules?

[CJS]

 
You have to play the game and the bureaucrats make the rules .

why do you have to play their game and by their rules?

  Here we are at one of my stumbling blocks in the pursuit of real liberty. I think there is no way to have this discussion in forum setting with out it ending  up at "who will build the roads"  debate . I will have to wait till I get there to talk about how society polices its self with no courts or cops , don't get me wrong the concept is sexy as hell for me I just can't fully wrap my mind around it.

I wish NHFREE still had the chat box .. but if it was still up and running Luke the village idiot would probably still be in it . I am on yahoo chat if any one wants to chat in real time .

 





   

[John]

Here we are at one of my stumbling blocks in the pursuit of real liberty. I think there is no way to have this discussion in forum setting with out it ending  up at "who will build the roads"  debate . I will have to wait till I get there to talk about how society polices its self with no courts or cops , don't get me wrong the concept is sexy as hell for me I just can't fully wrap my mind around it.

Since we are in the Civil Disobedience section discussing how to use guns, cops, lawyers, and prosecutors – ad nauseam – why not throw this in as well?

I don't want to wait until later to have the conversation. I think that getting government off the roads should be our first priority. The roads are the place were they abuse more people, more often, than any other place. I say, GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF THE ROADS FIRST!

"King's highways" no more.

The Patriot- "This is the kings highway"

[leetninja]

Other times maybe it is just TROLLING in the Civil Disobedience area. Hmm?

Seriously ... do you even know the definition of trolling?  You are fitting it quite nicely. 

I can understand if you fundamentally don't agree with my methods however I will also invite you to have a nice tall glass of shut the fuck up. 

Your Buddhist way doesn't work 100% of the time. 

Sometimes people just dig in their heels and will not budge as they prepare - and escalate - towards war. Sometimes they dig themselves in deeper and deeper and deeper.
But sometimes when you are in a hole, the best thing to do is stop digging.
However, sometimes Peace is not actually the desired outcome; only "WINNING" matters ...

For me this isn't about winning.  This is about living my life.  Why should I have to move away because of this guy?  Is that the only solution to the problem?  So will you pay for my new home?  I have roots here and I have bills to pay.  Packing up and moving away isn;t exactly easy or desirable for me.  Maybe it is for you.  If you live a life of luxury where you are able to just pick your life up, drop everything, and move away because of some asshole neighbor that should have been arrested then that is great for you.  That is your solution not mine.  Again, this has nothing to do with "winning" because as far as I am concerned there is not win or lose - it simply isn't that black and white to me.     

I am seeking advice from a community that was once supportive of such things. 

Why is it in civil dis?  Well, maybe because I don't enjoy having to even talk to the cops, maybe because this is the best forum to seek advice on how to deal with them as I and several others have done in the past.  Maybe I just don't have to explain myself to a pissant like you. 

If you don't like the discussion, regardless of your reasons just go away if you aren't going to do anything useful/constructive/positive. 

You have added absolutely nothing positive to the conversation and only tried to chip away at what little positive comes forward.  Your sarcasm isn't constructive, your snide comments are really not helpful, and honestly I have never met you and you have made me hope that I never have to.  Maybe some other people put up with your shit but that isn't my style so again, here is a glass ... move along ...

[John]

Other times maybe it is just TROLLING in the Civil Disobedience area. Hmm?

Seriously ... do you even know the definition of trolling?  You are fitting it quite nicely. 

I can understand if you fundamentally don't agree with my methods however I will also invite you to have a nice tall glass of shut the fuck up. 

Your Buddhist way doesn't work 100% of the time. 

Sometimes people just dig in their heels and will not budge as they prepare - and escalate - towards war. Sometimes they dig themselves in deeper and deeper and deeper.
But sometimes when you are in a hole, the best thing to do is stop digging.
However, sometimes Peace is not actually the desired outcome; only "WINNING" matters ...

For me this isn't about winning.  This is about living my life.  Why should I have to move away because of this guy?  Is that the only solution to the problem?  So will you pay for my new home?  I have roots here and I have bills to pay.  Packing up and moving away isn;t exactly easy or desirable for me.  Maybe it is for you.  If you live a life of luxury where you are able to just pick your life up, drop everything, and move away because of some asshole neighbor that should have been arrested then that is great for you.  That is your solution not mine.  Again, this has nothing to do with "winning" because as far as I am concerned there is not win or lose - it simply isn't that black and white to me.     

I am seeking advice from a community that was once supportive of such things. 

Why is it in civil dis?  Well, maybe because I don't enjoy having to even talk to the cops, maybe because this is the best forum to seek advice on how to deal with them as I and several others have done in the past.  Maybe I just don't have to explain myself to a pissant like you. 

If you don't like the discussion, regardless of your reasons just go away if you aren't going to do anything useful/constructive/positive. 

You have added absolutely nothing positive to the conversation and only tried to chip away at what little positive comes forward.  Your sarcasm isn't constructive, your snide comments are really not helpful, and honestly I have never met you and you have made me hope that I never have to.  Maybe some other people put up with your shit but that isn't my style so again, here is a glass ... move along ...

If you get this angry over a few posts on the internet it must be very hard for you to deal with lots of stuff. My comments were intended mostly to only get you to think. I'm sorry that they were hurtful. I hope that you can forgive me for those. I forgive you.
Forgiveness can work miracles.

[Russell Kanning]

i couldn't agree with John more

Kat and I invented this forum to hang out with our friends and to plan activism.

You started this thread .... in our civil disobedience section, on the topic of how to deal with an angry neighbor. You have disagreed with any answer that did not include you using a gun, or calling the cops to use force against this person. This is not the kind of behavior we want to encourage.

Since you are asking advice on how to best play the cop, lawyer, government game .... maybe you should do that on another forum.

We are trying to follow a different path and to encourage others to do likewise.

[KBCraig]

Now that this has been moved to Endless Debate & Whining....

My initial impression of leetninja from other threads was what Russell said: eager to find a way or a reason to use force. But, I don't think Russell has read any of leetninja's posts in this thread, all of which indicate that he's not eager to use force, but is afraid he might have to because of this crazy and violent neighbor. Most of us have been there.

[Ed]

OMG. Really you guys are nuts. You've got some problems. This guy is telling you a story of how his neighbor wants to kill him, and you're complaining aboiut being "peaceful". This isn't a fucking kumbaya protest circle if these allegations are true - this kid has a serious problem. Grow up time, it sounds like cops or his gun are the only thing that could help him - some people can't be reasoned with. By the sounds of it this neighbor outright has an age-induced psychological/physiological problem.

he's a troll? You guys are LIFE trolls.

Hey, how about this. How about YOU guys go and try to talk to this neighbor if your peaceful ways are so effective. See how far that goes...

[John]

Hey, how about this. How about YOU guys go and try to talk to this neighbor if your peaceful ways are so effective. See how far that goes...

Funny you should say that because, actually, I had recently already told someone that I would probably be willing to go down to Salem and try to talk to this neighbor.

I truly believe that if this was handled differently it could be over with - and NonViolently.

Even after all that has been said here, I might still be willing.

[Tom Sawyer]

What is this idiots purpose for his behavior? It seems to be to get you agitated, to make himself feel powerful and important. Don't play into his hand by dwelling on the feud... the tug of war only exists if you participate.

His public displays that stop short of actually assault, show that he is aware of the consequences.

You believe your guns to be magic talismans that will solve problems... perhaps you would need to use deadly force, but as the plow incident shows being armed didn't stop the conflict. In fact I wonder if him seeing you to be armed has perhaps helped create the situation you are dealing with.

In the movies the gun is like a remote control that makes people do what you want. In real life some nut like this can often be agitated and escalate the situation.

There are options that aren't at the extremes of killing him or feeling like you have to slink away. Live your life and try not to give the clown any reactions to feed off of. Others have and will see his behavior, he will eventually give up trying to get a reaction from you.

[leetninja]

i couldn't agree with John more

Kat and I invented this forum to hang out with our friends and to plan activism.  Also to impose our will on everyone else and attempt to take a moral high ground somehow that really doesn't float or work in any way while yelling "this is our forum we do what we want" in a manner that can easily be deemed retarded.

You started this thread .... in our civil disobedience section, I haven't read a single word of it, but because I don't like you as I have let everyone know in the past quite clearly, I will now censor you and attempt to passively aggressively (non violently) attack your ground - but don't forget I am holier than thou ... on the topic of how to deal with an angry neighbor. You have disagreed with any answer that did not include you using a gun, or calling the cops to use force against this person. This is not the kind of behavior we want to encourage.

Since you are asking advice on how to best play the cop, lawyer, government game .... maybe you should do that on another forum. 

We are trying to follow a different path and to encourage others to do likewise.

Basically you haven't read a word of what I have said.  Which is fine.  I came to this forum in the past for support and pretty much ended up in the same circle with you and your few friends that stand by the whole do nothing be a better person take the high road ghandi method which does work in some cases but not all.  you seem to not understand that or something.  then you twist words and intent to your liking and make someone feel like shit and then you basically move topics or make them go away once you deem them insignificant.  whatever.  i am done with this forum. 

i should have remembered all hail the king ...