Jobs With out a SSN #

[AvatarofVirgo]

Then why not do without the bank account, too.

I like to order stuff offline.? I get all my computer stuff from online.? I need a credit card for that.

I believe there are cash-based debit cards.

That's basically what I have.? I don't have a "real" credit card.? I meant to say debit card my bank gave me for my checking account.? If that's what you where talking about.

No, I meant ones that can work like telephone calling cards, or a Wal Mart gift card. I don't know of a source, but I've heard they can be had.

Kevin

Cool, I'll have to look that up later.

[KBCraig]

I'll have to check, too. If they truly are a cash-based anonymous "piece of trash fake visa or mastercard debit card", to quote Clark Howard, then they're perfect for shopping online, or anywhere else a "non-banking" person would profit from a "credit" card.

Kevin

[Dave Ridley]

Avatar I think there could be a market for transporting stuff to the Boston area from Nashua NH.   Prices in Nashua are almost as cheap as Dallas, but Boston area prices, just 40 mi. away, are about 50% higher than Nashua.   Also there is no sales tax in NH of course so you'd save them another 5% that way. 

you coul charge 10% markup and save them boo koo money,

[olehenry]

I'm still here.? I was just thinking.? If I was to not use my SSN any more then I would go all the way and try to opt out of Social Security.? I just don't want to burn my card.? I want to get rid of the number all together.? Meaning I want to goto the social security office and tell them, "I want out, cancel my membership, delete my number".? Why do I half ass job.? Go all the way.

<snipped my post> (olehenry)

Right now my priority is getting a job and buying a car and getting my own place.? I want a job that I don't have to provide my SSN, take a damn drug test or have a back ground check.? I also want to find a bank I can have a checking account with, with out giving out my SSN.

[You run into a problem here with "job that I don't have to provide my ssn".  There are nearly 280 million people within the "USA" borders who supposedly support the use of force from thousands of armed men and women to ensure that you comply with the laws.  No doubt, the USA is big enough that one can hide from the laws and operate small underground relationships.

For example, income:  In america, if you trade *any* value for value (and it is not listed as an exemption) you are required by the authorities to decide market value for the trade and list it as income to be taxed.  IMO, if you're a big enough fish (lots of trading, especially in FRN's) you'd soon be on a list, then in court, then jailed.

The reason I suggest learning about the "enemy" is that you would be better equipped to choose your battles.  IMO, some actions are riskier than others, and losing liberty (it's not freedom in USA, it's liberty) or life over a relatively small disagreement may not be worth the trade.

Additionally, knowing what occurs in the courts allows you to further tweak your strategy in case you are arrested one day. -- Olehenry]


Now if you can help me do all those things, then awesome.

[I would only help if the exchange were mutually beneficial.  Not sure that I'd want to be in the same corner with you if your strategy was to point a gun at the government officials while yelling, "I'm a free man!"  I know a little about the law and have some experience with strategic avoidance of taxation.  If you provide a service or product I want, I may be able to help you out by trading with you.  Otherwise, I cannot help with the SSN-free bank or license for car, nor do I have property which you may rent or purchase. -- Olehenry]

As for learning a whole lot of useless laws, I'll leave that up to lawyers.? Politicians change the laws when ever it suits them so it seems useless to remember even half of them.

[I agree, memorizing most of them would be a waste of time.  However, being prepared to defend yourself in a court after you've decided to go driving on USA territory without a license to operate, etc. may be worth the effort.  Besides, these laws change very little over the years.

Big questions: do you plan on being underground to the day you die?  Would you rather fight the system from inside or outside, or a little of both?  Or do you want to ignore that such a (powerful) system exists?  --Olehenry]

I just want to live my life with out the "system".

[My best to you as you learn to deal w/ Earth and her many States.  --Olehenry]

[coffeeseven]

I thought I would ressurrect this thread because the subject is timely. Sorry about the blathering - Please bear with me.

I have lived completely without a ssn, DL, checking/savings for years. I can tell you it is a pain in the arse. Lot's of things you can't do, not many things you can do. In my case - anxiety every time I drive my car ('specially with the kids aboard), Wife constantly crabbing about no money, no flights on shiny airplanes, no time spent in hotel rooms.....etc. You get the idea. Think about it. What CAN you do without a SSN/DL. Walk around with your finger in your belly button, that's about it.

I recently gave in to wife's admonitions to "come back to the fold" so I dusted off the SSN that I cancelled (Brent-Emory..Johnson method) years ago. Got the DL with no problem just by reciting the number, so apparently the government refuses to recognize cancellation in any form. Applying for a credit/debit card is is different matter. So is checking/savings. The mantra now is The Patriot Act. You don't submit a SSN, you can't play in any reindeer games. The refusal letter specifically cites The Patriot Act.

I applied online for what looked like a good bet for a debit card and I got back that they wanted a COPY OF MY SS CARD, AND A RECENT UTILITY BILL FAXED TO THEM. Like an idiot, I did and they say they never got it. They wanted me to re-send. I refused. I tried another company and they wanted the same thing.  I did not send this time. My wife applied and got it without any hiccup. Apparently SSN "cancellation", although entirely without teeth can get you on to some secret "person of interest" list. And that's just for a DEBIT CARD FORCRYSAKES. Pre-loaded, one time use cards are the only answer for the time being.

I'm probably not breaking any news here - Commerce has become the lap dog of the government, and "our" government has become entirely autonomous, and acts outside of the will of the people. You stick your head above the foxhole in 2006, pucker up.

I'm going to NH in 2007 to try and restore as much of what has been taken away from us as I can - in my short lifetime. I'll have to sacrifice alot. My family will not go with me, divorce, and I'm starting from scratch at 46, but the potential benefits outweigh the cost. Can I afford to go? No. Can I afford NOT TO is the real question. The chance of failure is much, much greater if I stay here. Pretty simple math. What kind of world DO I want to leave to my kids? Not this one.

We all need to go there and support each other so that none of us has to go it alone. THEN there's a chance we can repeal The Patriot Act, and all other un-constitutional laws, codes, stautes, and governmental bodies as we can, and do away with that damned number.

Just my 2 cents.

CoffeeSeven steps off of his soap box

[Russell Kanning]

I like driving without a license ... it gives you that       road trip movie/devil-may-care/rebel with a cause    thrill of being free and stickin it to the man.

It was more fun in my 66 Mustang, but we can't have everything.

You can get on a plane flight without any problems with no ssn.

[TEBON]

Are you saying we should leave the country rather than stay in NH and fight it?

No.

"just exactly where we goin I can not say but, we might even, leave the USA. . . cause it's a brand new game and I don't wanna playyyyy"

[maineiac]

I thought I would ressurrect this thread because the subject is timely. Sorry about the blathering - Please bear with me.

I have lived completely without a ssn, DL, checking/savings for years. I can tell you it is a pain in the arse. Lot's of things you can't do, not many things you can do. In my case - anxiety every time I drive my car ('specially with the kids aboard), Wife constantly crabbing about no money, no flights on shiny airplanes, no time spent in hotel rooms.....etc. You get the idea. Think about it. What CAN you do without a SSN/DL. Walk around with your finger in your belly button, that's about it.

I recently gave in to wife's admonitions to "come back to the fold" so I dusted off the SSN that I cancelled (Brent-Emory..Johnson method) years ago. Got the DL with no problem just by reciting the number, so apparently the government refuses to recognize cancellation in any form. Applying for a credit/debit card is is different matter. So is checking/savings. The mantra now is The Patriot Act. You don't submit a SSN, you can't play in any reindeer games. The refusal letter specifically cites The Patriot Act.

I applied online for what looked like a good bet for a debit card and I got back that they wanted a COPY OF MY SS CARD, AND A RECENT UTILITY BILL FAXED TO THEM. Like an idiot, I did and they say they never got it. They wanted me to re-send. I refused. I tried another company and they wanted the same thing.  I did not send this time. My wife applied and got it without any hiccup. Apparently SSN "cancellation", although entirely without teeth can get you on to some secret "person of interest" list. And that's just for a DEBIT CARD FORCRYSAKES. Pre-loaded, one time use cards are the only answer for the time being.

I'm probably not breaking any news here - Commerce has become the lap dog of the government, and "our" government has become entirely autonomous, and acts outside of the will of the people. You stick your head above the foxhole in 2006, pucker up.

I'm going to NH in 2007 to try and restore as much of what has been taken away from us as I can - in my short lifetime. I'll have to sacrifice alot. My family will not go with me, divorce, and I'm starting from scratch at 46, but the potential benefits outweigh the cost. Can I afford to go? No. Can I afford NOT TO is the real question. The chance of failure is much, much greater if I stay here. Pretty simple math. What kind of world DO I want to leave to my kids? Not this one.

We all need to go there and support each other so that none of us has to go it alone. THEN there's a chance we can repeal The Patriot Act, and all other un-constitutional laws, codes, stautes, and governmental bodies as we can, and do away with that damned number.

Just my 2 cents.

CoffeeSeven steps off of his soap box

coffee,

I am both heartened and saddened by your confessional. You obviously made the moral libertarian choice years ago not wishing to be a number, and yet you have decided to "come back to the fold?"

Sorry that you felt so deprived for so long doing what so many here only dream of. I too have gone many years outside the official numbering/licensing/indentured servant system, but I have only seldom felt any small twinges of retrospective regret for not being able to "play the game," but I have experienced an almost daily sense of exhilaration assuming individual responsibility and personal liberty.

Perhaps it's all good to part the ways with the wife who nagged you back into the maw! Best wishes in liberty!

[coffeeseven]

Maineac, It made me sick to my stomach at first, LITERALLY. I had some pretty deep self loathing. It took me 6 months after I told her I was going to do it, to do it. To be fair to her, It was partly selfish too. I eventually rationalised it this way: I aspire to run for office when I get to NH. Without the DL I can't even register to vote. At least that's how it is here. It's also hard to campaign from the inside of a jail cell. I've spent plenty of time there. The last time was a few months ago. A taste of pavement + guns drawn = Are we having fun yet?

It's my opinion that I would be in a better position to fight "the system" from inside the system. Just my opinion.

I dunno about the road trip movie Russell. Even Brent Johnson keeps license plates on his car. I'd like to organize an annual drive to the capitol and back without license plates as a demonstration, and work on being the first state to rescind license plates (fat chance*), but day to day with the kids in the back? If it's just me it's one thing, kids, another. When cops arrest you and call DCFS because you can't reach your S.O., or whatever wrinkle might arise, it's a nightmare getting your kids back. We have a pretty bloodthirsty DCFS here. I wonder how they are in NH.  ???

*We're going to have to take the whole thing down, government that is. superstructure and all, and rebuild from the ground up. "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it...."

[AmerTownCrier]

I'll have to check, too. If they truly are a cash-based anonymous "piece of trash fake visa or mastercard debit card", to quote Clark Howard, then they're perfect for shopping online, or anywhere else a "non-banking" person would profit from a "credit" card.

Kevin

Here in Michigan I found one bank that issues the type of card to look for. It's called a 'gift' card...mine had the visa logo. It is a debit card technically, you charge it for the amount you pay the bank teller plus a few dollars for the transaction...and then when you use it online or anywhere for that matter...you tell the cashier to process it like a 'credit' card. Using the word 'gift' is the key to finding what you need. They don't work to pay for 'porn' sites...but that's a small price to pay for the usage and benefits the card offers
Normally, you ask for a credit or debit card...they pull out the long forms and tell you it will take several days to process. With the 'gift' card...if they participate...they have the 'blank' gift cards ready on site to be charged. I use them now when I have to order some ink and get it faster then mailing a US postal money order in payment
AvatarofVirgo...As far as the SSN is concerned: 1) It was suggested you do some research. I believe your response was you'd basically be happier if somebody else did it 'for you'.  You need to do some research of your own...it's your action(s) ultimately that will have consequences...and you won't be alone...the SSN is a big issue to people (or is it just me since I live without the number ).   
The social security administration will not honor any 'removal' requests. And since they issued the number in response to an application (SS-5) only the SSA can 'delete' a number from the computer system of records. It boils down to writing them...asking what law(s) require you use the number to receive (drivers license, passport, bank account...or whatever the issue is) and give them 30 days to respond or you will not use the number. Again, they probably won't answer (if they do...PLEASE post the response). Use it or don't ... it's just a personal choice now...and it does have consequences!

[error]

Here in Michigan I found one bank that issues the type of card to look for. It's called a 'gift' card...mine had the visa logo. It is a debit card technically, you charge it for the amount you pay the bank teller plus a few dollars for the transaction...and then when you use it online or anywhere for that matter...you tell the cashier to process it like a 'credit' card. Using the word 'gift' is the key to finding what you need. They don't work to pay for 'porn' sites...but that's a small price to pay for the usage and benefits the card offers
Normally, you ask for a credit or debit card...they pull out the long forms and tell you it will take several days to process. With the 'gift' card...if they participate...they have the 'blank' gift cards ready on site to be charged. I use them now when I have to order some ink and get it faster then mailing a US postal money order in payment

You can find these cards all over the place these days. I saw them in Office Depot the other day. Most AAA offices sell them. The local mall sells them. I hear they're even in some 7-Eleven stores.

I once used one of these cards at a Safeway in Oregon. Now Safeway, when you use a card, would print your name on the receipt in very large letters, and the cashier, in some misguided attempt to be "personal," would read the name and say something like "Thanks for coming in, Mr. Smith."

Or in my case, "Have a nice day, Mr. Gift."

[KBCraig]

http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/prepaid/gift_card_how.html

[Lloyd Danforth]

There are monthly charges on some of these cards and they gradually loose their value. CT has a law preventing this.

[cathleeninnh]

My bank offers these gift cards but the limit is very low. No more than $200, I think. That isn't enough for our typical online purchases like computer stuff or airline tickets. i don't know what we are going to do after December when our pay it off each month card goes RFID.

Cathleen

[Lloyd Danforth]

Lead foil