Freedom to Travel Event, Part 4

[davemincin]

hey foreverfree,

Free what??   Were did you get you book learnin?? ???  Ever read the Constitution?  It's a really short document? ???

Expect you are one of those hey, we know best, cause we learned it in public schools? ???  Hey read the words pally, the
Constitution is not a living and breathing document, but is just what it says!  But hey, learn about the Fathers they say, beware
of the government it is about controlling the folks!

Sorry pally, I put my trust in the folks, just like the document says, and not in you folks who think you know what is best for
everyone!

Hey, not brilliant like you, but my nose works just fine!

[Lloyd Danforth]

From Dada in an earlier post.
____________________________________________________________________

We're about to have a problem which is, as they say, the kind of problem you want to have...because only successful web forums have it.

Sooner or later as this site gets more popular it will, like all web forums, start attracting a lot of trolls, i.e. people who are here to destroy the environment of our little web community.  Some will make personal attacks or start flame wars, others will resort to sexual references.  Still others will simply try to eat up your time with debate. They'd rather see you debating them than taking action for liberty.  The important thing is not to give them what they want. 

Every troll has a slightly different motivation but most of them want one or more of the folllowing:

1) Attention, hateful or otherwise.

2) To drive away people from the forum by making it a less friendly place

3) To force moderators to delete their posts so they can accuse someone of violating their free speech

The important thing is generally to not give them what they want.   Don't respond to them, don't leave the forum because of them and (in the case of moderators) don't delete their posts unless it's really necessary and deletion appears to be supported by the other participants.

Take trolls for what they are:  A sign of success and a test of your will.  Pass the test by sticking with us and giving the bad guys no aid and comfort. 

[davemincin]

hey Lloyd,

Of course you are right just can't resist, laying out my stuff on the govern't know best folks who are here now.

Reminds me of an old song, "Second Hand News"  Fleetwood Mac..."Just lay me down in the tall grass and let me
do my stuff."  Hey, the stuff is Freedom!  Thinking even if I don't agree, very much about the folks laying down there
stuff.

Feel bad about the folks who are so, who have no idea about freedom, and think the govenment knows best.  Perhaps
if they just open up there brain they just miight see the truth!

Hey, just an old hippie, who can still think, hey you government folks, really want to tallk about freedom and who should be
making the decisions or just want to talk about how smart you and the government are?

[thewaka]

That is a great theory, but it could only be a theory.  You can't forget what happened on September 11th.  I would love to not have to go through screening, but someone has to make sure that people aren't bringing on things that could hurt other people.

Like their fingers? 

Did the passengers who brought down Flight 93 have "things that could hurt other people"? They had something even though none were armed. The problem is, even when fire was the greatest tool available, people hurt other people. Being disarmed and helpless does not make us safe from harm. Not in the air and not on the ground.

Diana

[AlanM]

Resourceful terrorists can make weapons out of innocuos items, particularly if the rest of the passengers and crew are unarmed.

[tracysaboe]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". 

Your love of this statement says a lot about you. The government means more than the indiviual, to you. I feel sorry for you.

Agreed. You shouldn't be worshiping the government. You should be helping your neighbors, family, and friends, and yourself. You should be worshiping God -- or not.  Government, by virtue of it's being the ultimate monopoly, simply is incapible of economic calculation and as such, can't even know the most efficient, way to do anything. With-out competition, you have no way of knowing if, or if not, there is a better way.  So it's best to keep as much money in the free market as possible, and as little in the hands of government.  -- These problems exist even if all our politicians and bureaucrats are noble saints -- which we know they're not.

Tracy

[tracysaboe]

The TSA created a standard.  They make it the same all across the board.  Which in turn, makes it fair.  That way no one can say that one place is more lax than another.  There is no such thing as a perfect system.  There has to be some form of screening though.  I think we all can agree there.

Fair smair.

You don't want life to be fair. You want customers to have choices, and options.

Tracy

[Dreepa]

The TSA created a standard.?

Some standard.... some places (Oakland) I don't have to take my shoes off.  Some places (SFO) I do-- ( well I don't then I get mandatory second screening)

As you said... learn the facts.

[tracysaboe]

Here we go again.

Actually 911 happend precisely BECAUSE government had comanded and controled us and usurped our rights. If government hadn't been in the business of air-port security in the first place, air-lines would have been more flexible in providing their own, and trying out the best ways to protect the air-plane. The government usurped our right to bare arms. And forbade pilots from having guns. (even though air-mail pilots used to be required to have them.) Indeed, it's precisely BECAUSE government disarmed the polulous, that a few terrorists with box cutters were able to take down a whole plane. If just ONE law abbiding citizen had had a gun, or one of the pilots had a gun, it would have been pretty much impossible for them to hijack it.

Also check out the Mises article about it here.
"Who is to blame for 9-11"
http://www.mises.org/story/1387

You don't even need to talk about the fact that terrorists would be less likely to terrorize us if we weren't running around the globe interfering in their internal affairs.

And you don't need to be conspiratorial to say the U.S. government is to blame either.

It's to blame regardless.

Top-down bureaucracy comand economies are inherently incompetent to engage a highly decentralized enemy.

Tracy

[foreverfree]

hey foreverfree,

Free what?? ? Were did you get you book learnin?? ???? Ever read the Constitution?? It's a really short document? ???

Expect you are one of those hey, we know best, cause we learned it in public schools? ???? Hey read the words pally, the
Constitution is not a living and breathing document, but is just what it says!? But hey, learn about the Fathers they say, beware
of the government it is about controlling the folks!

Sorry pally, I put my trust in the folks, just like the document says, and not in you folks who think you know what is best for
everyone!

Hey, not brilliant like you, but my nose works just fine!

What makes you right?  You say you "trust in the folks and not in you folks who think you know what is best for everyone."  Aren't you saying what is best for everyone?  Why are your ideals correct?  Not a strong argument, but you can keep at it....

[foreverfree]

Resourceful terrorists can make weapons out of innocuos items, particularly if the rest of the passengers and crew are unarmed.

Pilots are armed....next...

[foreverfree]

Here we go again.

Actually 911 happend precisely BECAUSE government had comanded and controled us and usurped our rights. If government hadn't been in the business of air-port security in the first place, air-lines would have been more flexible in providing their own, and trying out the best ways to protect the air-plane. The government usurped our right to bare arms. And forbade pilots from having guns. (even though air-mail pilots used to be required to have them.) Indeed, it's precisely BECAUSE government disarmed the polulous, that a few terrorists with box cutters were able to take down a whole plane. If just ONE law abbiding citizen had had a gun, or one of the pilots had a gun, it would have been pretty much impossible for them to hijack it.

Also check out the Mises article about it here.
"Who is to blame for 9-11"
http://www.mises.org/story/1387

You don't even need to talk about the fact that terrorists would be less likely to terrorize us if we weren't running around the globe interfering in their internal affairs.

And you don't need to be conspiratorial to say the U.S. government is to blame either.

It's to blame regardless.

Top-down bureaucracy comand economies are inherently incompetent to engage a highly decentralized enemy.

Tracy

With that said....Which country would you model your Eutopia after?  Where is it better than here?  There isn't one.  I am not all for the Government or Bush or any of that.  I am for this country. 

[Lloyd Danforth]

With that said....Which country would you model your Eutopia after?? Where is it better than here?? There isn't one.? I am not all for the Government or Bush or any of that.? I am for this country.?

There are no utpians here.? The country I want to live in is the U.S. of the past.
There was a time when the citizens of this country understood that we should not be sticking our collective noses in every area of the world, using the lie that we are protecting ourselves.
There was a time when citizens of this country understood that? hardworking citizens of this country are not required to support millions of people in other countries, and this one.
There was a time when citizens of this country understood that the government was their servant and, not, the other way around.
Returning to that era is hardly utopia.

[AlanM]

I definitely agree with Lloyd. This country, before 1860, had it pretty good. Government was small and non-intrusive. Parents were free to educate their children as they saw fit. You didn't need a license for business. We don't need an income tax. It is in existence to pay for big gov and control.

[LuvNHnotGOVT]

Hi, I just joined this group today.  I heard about what Russell did on the news.  It sparked lots of conversation at work.  I am glad he did it.  I, for one, am tired of being treated poorly at the airport.  Last time I was there, they looked me up and down, and asked me to remove my sneakers.  How humiliating.  I feel like they have so much 'power' over me.  I feel like I have to look them in the eyes and 'yes please' and 'no sir' them to death just so I don't get pulled out of line and searched. 

I of course have nothing to hide, it's just very frustrating to be treated this way.  My 2 cents.

Cher